Re: Transferring money between two bank accounts across borders

RE: "Perhaps electronic transfer is better since there is not a check that
can be physically lost"

Well, a digital token can be lost too -- there are some rather spectacular
Bitcoin and Ether stories in that vein.

The dual issue is:
1. Is a token "the money", or is it "a message about the money"?
2. If it's "a message about the money", is it "a unique instantiation of
the message", or is it "just a convenient method for communicating the
message"?

In that news story the bank is treating the token (here a paper bank draft,
but just as easily a crypto-coin) as a unique instantiation of the message,
analogous to those old IATA airline tickets. Loose it and you're outta-luck
-- it may still "your" seat on the plane, but you can't get there from
here. The bank's customer was led to believe (by the bank, apparently) that
the token was just a convenient method for communicating the message,
analogous to printing your boarding pass before heading to the airport in
case your phone connection or battery fails at the boarding gate.

Web payments ought to efficiently associate money directly with user
entities (the elegant-to-manage approach in my view, building upon a
soverign ID, say like https://sovrin.org/   https://sovrin.org/indy/ )
instead of associating the money directly with token entities (the
really-hard-to-manage approach in my view). Back at the inaugural
conference of W3C Web Payments in Paris, I expressed the view to a few over
lunch that the correct monetary value of any of the digital tokens is
effectively zero, like the sheet of paper upon which I printed my airline
boarding pass to get there. Had I lost the paper, and had my phone also cut
out, probably I could have proven my identity with another device or with
other documents and have gotten on my scheduled  return flight home.

Joseph Potvin

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017 at 3:59 AM, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks all for the comments and suggestions. From reviewing the links,
> it looks like there are much more inexpensive ways to send money from
> bank account to bank account than a wire transfer. Thanks Joseph for
> the link to the news article about the lost inheritance check. Perhaps
> electronic transfer is better since there is not a check that can be
> physically lost.
>
> -Brent Shambaugh
>
> On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 8:35 AM, Gerard P. Hammarlund
> <gerard.hammarlund@endresultsgrp.com> wrote:
> > Hello all,
> >
> > Check clearing is definitely not free and in most cases would not give
> you
> > immediate use of funds.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > gph
> >
> > Gerard P. Hammarlund
> >
> > On 14 Dec 2017, at 19:39, Stephane Canon <stephane.canon@scarlet.be>
> wrote:
> >
> > TransferWise is definitely among the best option. Much cheaper than
> banks. I
> > also made a comparison with similar products and TF is the cheapest.
> > I would be surprised however if a check drawn in a bank in country A and
> > remitted to a bank in country B would be free.
> >
> > Le 14 déc. 2017 à 17:26, Sebastian Durandeu <sebastiandurandeu@gmail.com>
> a
> > écrit :
> >
> > Probably TransferWise is a good option. It's not free, but cheaper than a
> > wire transfer.. Notice it does not support all currencies.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:13 PM, David Nicol <davidnicol@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> the "paper check."
> >>
> >> These things, aside from predating computers, actually predate paper
> >> money, at least in Europe, having their origins in schemes relying on
> >> trusted account-holding entities (primarily, AIUI, in Amsterdam) to
> avoid
> >> hauling a lot of silver around in sailing ships.
> >>
> >> A paper check allows transfer of money across borders between two bank
> >> accounts, and is inexpensive or free.
> >>
> >> The clearing of the check may take multiple days, but that isn't one of
> >> Brent's criteria here.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:35 AM, Brent Shambaugh
> >> <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am wondering. Is there a financial product that allows for transfer
> of
> >>> money across borders between two bank accounts? The answer I know of,
> but do
> >>> not prefer, is a wire transfer due to its expense. Is there
> inexpensive or
> >>> free?
> >
> >
> >
> >
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