Web Payments Telecon Minutes for 2014-10-01

Thanks to Dave Longley for scribing this week! The minutes
for this week's Web Payments telecon are now available:

https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-10-01/

Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).

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Web Payments Community Group Telecon Minutes for 2014-10-01

Agenda:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2014Sep/0160.html
Topics:
  1. Status of Web Payments Use Cases Vote
  2. Agenda Bashing for W3C TPAC
Chair:
  Manu Sporny
Scribe:
  Dave Longley
Present:
  Dave Longley, Manu Sporny, Adrian Hope-Bailie, David I. Lehn, 
  Evgeny Vinogradov
Audio:
  https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-10-01/audio.ogg

Dave Longley is scribing.
Manu Sporny:  Call should be short today; we basically want to 
  propose an agenda for W3C TPAC.

Topic: Status of Web Payments Use Cases Vote

Manu Sporny: 
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2014Sep/0155.html
Manu Sporny:  The call for votes went out last Friday, we have 
  six people voting so far, so six different organizations. We 
  should send out a reminder this week to make sure everyone tries 
  to vote. So it closes Oct 10th, which is the same day the Web 
  Payments Activity vote closes. We're a couple of days into the 
  vote, we've gotten really good feedback so far. Adrian, your 
  feedback was really good.
Manu Sporny:  We'll may wait until after the vote to post all the 
  feedback together.
Manu Sporny:  Any questions or concerns about the votes or use 
  cases so far?
None
Manu Sporny:  We'll send out a reminder email to everyone in the 
  group as well as letting every other org we've been in contact 
  with (250+) to let them know what's going on with the two votes 
  (Activity Charter and CG)
Manu Sporny:  It seems some orgs are completely unaware the vote 
  is happening or they've missed it.

Topic: Agenda Bashing for W3C TPAC

Manu Sporny:  We have eight hours of meeting time split over two 
  days, two hours in the morning and two in the afternoon...
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
Manu Sporny: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/ad-hoc-meetings
Manu Sporny:  There are ad-hoc meetings that can happen, so for 
  example, on Monday and Tuesday there will be ad-hoc meetings, 
  between the official Web Payments IG meeting.
Manu Sporny:  Two hours of IG meeting, 4 hours of ad-hoc 
  meetings, and then 2 hours of IG meeting again.
Manu Sporny: 
  http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/#Monday/Tuesday%20Groups
Manu Sporny:  The Web Payments IG group is there on Tuesday, see 
  link in IRC.
Manu Sporny:  There's a list of people who have registered, but 
  since W3C was late getting the item there on the agenda, people 
  missed it when they registered so we have to tell those people to 
  go back and re-register.
Manu Sporny:  So 9am-11am is the start of the IG meeting from 
  11am-3pm ... we could create identity credentials group meetings 
  as a break out session and then the afternoon is more IG 
  meetings.
Manu Sporny:  I'm assuming that we're going to be doing payments 
  use cases for most of the two days in the IG.
Manu Sporny:  I'm assuming we'll be doing credentials use cases 
  in the identity meetings.
Manu Sporny:  I'm expecting a lot of time will be spent 
  discussing use cases and the implications around those.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Am I wrong that there is time set aside on 
  Mon and Tues?
Manu Sporny:  Is there anything else we should be focusing on 
  other than use cases, such as a roadmap, doing demos, etc.
Manu Sporny:  There's a specific time set aside Mon and Tue for 
  the web payments IG which is member only and that's 9-11am and 
  3-5/6pm. And that's for the official work. The non-official work 
  can happen elsewhere.
Manu Sporny:  I think it would be smart for us to do one break 
  out session for identity/credentials on one day and one for web 
  payments on another day so people who aren't in the IG can 
  attend.
Manu Sporny:  If there are orgs that want to attend but can't, 
  then we might want to have another session (web payments) in the 
  break out room.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Having some time set aside for 
  credentials/identity is probabaly a good idea
Adrian Hope-Bailie: +1
Manu Sporny:  Adrian, will you be at TPAC?
Manu Sporny:  The W3C TPAC thing is a pretty important meeting to 
  make sure we bring everyone up to speed on what's been going on, 
  so what's the general question ...
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  I'm talking to my board about becoming a W3C 
  member, and then attending W3C TPAC. [scribe assist by Manu 
  Sporny]
Dave Longley:  Maybe we should do some demos. Show people the 
  direction that this stuff could head in. [scribe assist by Manu 
  Sporny]
Dave Longley:  IGs going to think about which WGs should be 
  created. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  The IGs going to create WGs for the identity work? 
  [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Yes, that's the plan.
Dave Longley:  We need to make sure the W3C members in the IG are 
  well aware that the identity work has been split off in the CGs 
  [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  They need to understand that we still need that 
  work to happen officially. We should also talk about Roadmaps. 
  [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  We should talk about stuff that's out of scope as 
  well. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  Like, for example, decentralized clearing 
  solutions - out of scope for version 1. [scribe assist by Manu 
  Sporny]
Dave Longley:  We should talk about a roadmap - we have a lot of 
  these things on the radar, they have been discussed, there is a 
  plan. We want the work to be done in an iterative process. 
  [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  This is bringing up the concept that we should have 
  a roadmap discussion
Manu Sporny: Start with a brief background/history on what got us 
  to where we are today.
Manu Sporny: Do a quick overview of the use cases w/o discussion.
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  Identify which of the payments use cases are 
  dependent on the credentials work and which ones aren't. [scribe 
  assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  We might want to mention a roadmap fairly early, 
  people might have questions on things on the roadmap. Maybe we 
  can direct the discussion on things that should be handled in 
  first version of the work. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  We can discuss this as historical background - 
  these are the things that came up, these are the ways they were 
  split out, these are for future versions, etc. We could then go 
  into use cases. We need to make sure that people don't feel this 
  is set in stone, it's just how the work has evolved. [scribe 
  assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Ok, so first 2 hour chunk is: 1. Overview of W3C and 
  the process, 2. History of Web Payments at W3C and CG work, 3. 
  Where we are now, what we need to accomplish at W3C TPAC 4. 
  Potential Road Map
Dave Longley:  Somewhere in there, we'll be talking about 
  splitting use cases into version 1, and "later" [scribe assist by 
  Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  We found that there are two general areas that we 
  need to work on - payments stuff and identity stuff. [scribe 
  assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  The breakout session has more to do w/ whether or 
  not people are available. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  We need to have two break out sessions, 
  identity+payments, for the people not deeply involved in the IG 
  work.
Manu Sporny:  We hold the payments thing on Tuesday in the middle 
  of the day, and that will be a basic overview for people not 
  directly involved in the work; a high-level overview of what's 
  happened over the last two days, here are some resources to track 
  the work, etc.
Manu Sporny:  I was hoping the break out session would try and 
  summarize what's happening in the IG.
Manu Sporny:  I think the only way we can schedule this is 
  credentials break out on day one and web payments break out on 
  day two.
Manu Sporny:  We could do identity on both Monday and Tuesday and 
  payments on Wednesday.
Dave Longley:  As long as there are enough people for payments on 
  wednesday, that aren't going to miss out - most of focus will be 
  on payments in official group. There is less time for the 
  identity stuff to be discussed. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  That will give us four hours of time to do 
  face-to-face on identity and around those two meetings there will 
  be payments, 8 hours total on payments.
Manu Sporny:  On wednesday we could have a wrap up session for 
  those who couldn't attend on Monday and Tuesday.
Manu Sporny:  The Internet Identity Workshop happens on Wednesday 
  at the same time we could do a breakout session at TPAC, which is 
  problematic.
Dave Longley:  Will there be a significant number wanting to 
  attend a breakout session. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  Do you need to squeeze anything in on Tuesday? 
  [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  Only official members can come into IG meeting - 
  all Web Payments talk will happen Mon/Tue? [scribe assist by Manu 
  Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Yes, W3C TPAC attendance is on a bell curve - most 
  everyone will be there on Wednesday.
Manu Sporny:  So Payments IG meeting Mon/Tues, in between will be 
  break out sessions for Identity/Credentials, and then quick 
  overviews of the payments and identity work on Wednesday in break 
  out session starting in the morning.
Adrian Hope-Bailie: +1
Manu Sporny:  I would imagine the Credentials stuff will be 
  formatted in a way that matches the Payments stuff, so we'll do a 
  history/etc.
Manu Sporny:  Intro to W3C, history of what got us here, we have 
  a set of use cases, and here's the roadmap.
Manu Sporny:  The second day will be just use cases, 
  focusing/refining, getting consensus.
Manu Sporny:  That will be it for the credentials stuff.
Manu Sporny:  Monday (intro, etc.), Tuesday (use cases for 2 
  hours)
Manu Sporny:  Are we going to be able to do demos at W3C TPAC? 
  [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  The current system we have would be simpler to 
  demo than the new system that has regulatory stuff in it. [scribe 
  assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny: Monday, 2nd Web Payments IG session - maybe start 
  off w/ use cases, then show demos.
Manu Sporny:  A lot of people will be introduced to these use 
  cases for the first time.
Manu Sporny:  Because their orgs have prohibited involvement 
  until official work starts.
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  How much time does it take to talk through 
  and demonstrate the use case? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  There are a number of use cases that we 
  can't demo yet, I'm sure. For illustration of what the use case 
  is intended to address, a demo is very useful. [scribe assist by 
  Manu Sporny]
Dave Longley:  Something that we should probably do is order the 
  use cases in demo-able order. An alternative would be to discuss 
  those use cases and show a demo once, that would allow people to 
  understand how those use cases could be addressed. Then we could 
  keep going through the demo, that would be one way to speed it 
  up. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  If we show a demo, it's not the only way to 
  solve the use case, it's one way to solve the use case. We might 
  want to have discussion first and then show the demo. [scribe 
  assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  If we show the demo first they may get overly hung 
  up on the demo and if we do it last they might not get the use 
  case until they've seen the demo, so tradeoffs.
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  Maybe this needs to be done on a 
  case-by-case basis.  [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  In general, there will be some set of demos, we 
  don't know if they'll be done first or inline w/the discussion 
  around the use cases.
Manu Sporny:  What might be helpful if we do a wrap up and say 
  everything between the intro and the wrap up will be discussion 
  around use cases and roadmap and things like that.
Manu Sporny:  Let's jump to Tuesday afternoon... what do we want 
  to put on the agenda in terms of wrap up items are concerned.
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  What's required for the IG to continue? What 
  are the expected steps after TPAC? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  We also need to give everyone an intro to the specs 
  we have so far, they are proposals, not set in stone, but someone 
  has to start and provide the IP to start the standardization work 
  (that's before the wrap up).
Manu Sporny:  We can talk about the next steps with Stephane 
  Boyera and the two chairs of the IG.
Manu Sporny:  We can identify what we need to do and where we 
  need to go, etc. and that's a group discussion, maybe committing 
  to some kind of time line. We'll have a technical roadmap and a 
  procedural time line -- and we can talk about what the next year 
  looks like and what happens in the next year, what documents are 
  expected to be delivered, etc. things like that.
Manu Sporny:  The other thing we should discuss in the wrap up is 
  recruiting, more W3C members to participate in the work, we have 
  to take recruiting pretty seriously because everyone's time is 
  split so much in W3C so we need to get orgs to join and assign 
  engineers.
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  Does anyone have a prioritized list of 
  candidates? People to get involved, etc.?
Manu Sporny:  Yeah, I keep a list, maybe I should publish that on 
  the wiki -- to list all the orgs we want to participate and our 
  current status in outreach to them.
Manu Sporny:  We need to be careful not to get in the way of W3C 
  communications.
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  It's important that we reach out to many of 
  these organizations, especially the large ones, to make sure they 
  know what's going on. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  Agreed, and we've been doing that for the last 
  three years which is one reason we've got so many people involved 
  in the workshop, etc.
Adrian Hope-Bailie:  With the new /official/ group, we should do 
  more outreach. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  We're at the top of the hour -- let's take 
  everything we've discussed on this call, I'll try and put a 
  proposed agenda together and we can get feedback from the CG to 
  refine/get objections and then pass to chairs and W3C staff.
David I. Lehn: Thanks, bye.
Evgeny Vinogradov: Bye

Received on Wednesday, 1 October 2014 15:27:28 UTC