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Payment Standard? Was: W3C TPAC 2014 Web Payments IG Minutes (DRAFT)

From: Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 07:35:46 +0100
Message-ID: <54572242.3060202@gmail.com>
To: Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>
CC: "public-webpayments-comments@w3.org" <public-webpayments-comments@w3.org>
This was a lot and also quite interesting.

It though confirms my view that there's nothing on the table that could be the foundation for a standard, W3C or other.

Mixing JSON-LD, Security Elements, Wallets (client and/or server), EMV, Bitcoins, NFC, and ISO messaging standards is neither meaningful nor feasible.
That Apple-Pay is an "App" is also a factor to consider.

If we take something related like Google's U2F they did a number of remarkable things:
- Google did not consider earlier efforts and standards like ISO 7816
- Google selected a specific and well-defined problem, completely ignoring other possible uses

If Google had tried pushing U2F through W3C, the project would probably have failed since committees tend forget timing, pragmatism, the 80/20 rule and most of all that life is about learning.

As a comparison I can mention my 7 lost years in TrustedComputingGroup who created the TPM which now is in "zombie-state" only cherished by its originator, Microsoft.
The market (including Intel) have turned to TEEs (Trusted Execution Environments) that can be updated on-the-fly which (for good or worse...) is a prerequisite in an ever-changing world.
This was early on visible on the radar but turning a ship around after *hundreds of millions of dollars* spent simply doesn't work for committees.

Cramming all payment systems into a single API and architecture is a *research project*.

So if the goal still is a *standard* we/W3C need to find something quite simple that still makes a change.
This probably means shelving 90-95% of the stuff currently on the table.
I would also ignore desktop solutions since these platforms develop too slow and are dominated by closed-source operating systems severely complicating third-party innovation.

Sincerely,
Anders Rundgren
WebPKI.org

On 2014-11-02 05:01, Manu Sporny wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Here is a draft version of the minutes for the Web Payments IG meetings
> at W3C TPAC 2014. I signed the Web Payments CG up to put together the
> drafts and review them for mistakes/vagueness.
>
> It would be great if some of the Web Payments CG members could review
> the minutes ASAP so that we can have them ready for the Web Payments IG
> meeting this coming Friday.
>
> Session 1: https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-10-27-wpig-s1/
> * Administrivia
> * Introduction to Group Members
> * Charter review
>
> Session 2: https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-10-27-wpig-s2/
> * Related Working Groups: Web Crypto
> * Related Groups: Web Payments CG
> * Related groups: Credentials CG
>
> Session 3: https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-10-27-wpig-s3/
> * Credentials CG Overview (continued)
> * SysApps and NFC
> * Trust and Permissions
> * ISO 20022
> * ISO 8583
> * ISO 12812
> * X9
> * ARTS/NRF UPOS
> * EMVCo
> * Wallet API
>
> Session 4: https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-10-28-wpig-s4/
> * Administrivia for Day 2
> * Wallet API / Payment Agent (continued)
> * What is a Wallet?
> * The Web Payment Problem
> * Push-based Payments
> * Web Payments IG Focus
>
> Session 5: https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-10-28-wpig-s5/
> * Payment Agent (formally Wallet)
> * Web Payments CG Use Cases
> * Task Forces
> * Future Planning Administrivia
>
> -- manu
>
Received on Monday, 3 November 2014 06:36:39 UTC

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