Re: Web Payments Telecon Minutes for 2014-02-26

I thought of identity when I saw this video about Bitcoin and Ripple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=YSEybL_DoZU#t=452


On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:49 AM, <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote:

> Thanks to Dave Longley and David I. Lehn for scribing this week! The
> minutes
> for this week's Web Payments telecon are now available:
>
> https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-02-26/
>
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio from the meeting is available as well (link provided below).
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Web Payments Community Group Telecon Minutes for 2014-02-26
>
> Agenda:
>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2014Feb/0130.html
> Topics:
>   1. WebMob Payments Task Force
>   2. Web Commerce API Vote
>   3. Persona and Web Identity Spec
> Chair:
>   Manu Sporny
> Scribe:
>   Dave Longley and David I. Lehn
> Present:
>   Dave Longley, Manu Sporny, Brent Shambaugh, David I. Lehn, Evan
>   Schwartz
> Audio:
>   https://web-payments.org/minutes/2014-02-26/audio.ogg
>
> Dave Longley is scribing.
> Manu Sporny:  Any updates or changes to the agenda today? Hearing
>   none, moving on.
>
> Topic: WebMob Payments Task Force
>
> Brent Shambaugh: https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases
> Manu Sporny:  Natasha is at the Mobile World Congress, so can't
>   be here
> Manu Sporny:  Can you run us through the payments use cases,
>   Brent?
> Brent Shambaugh:  Paper is trying to deliver a feel for what's
>   out there,  talks about current solutions
> Brent Shambaugh:  I started learning how to edit this thing so i
>   have my own fork of it here:
>   https://github.com/bshambaugh/payments-use-cases
> Brent Shambaugh:  I'm going to go through and following the
>   template that Natasha created. I have added many payment
>   providers - Square, Dwolla, etc.
> Manu Sporny:  I think mainly what Natasha is looking for is
>   mobile-specific use cases, that's not to say it's not important
>   to do a survey of all of them, it's important for the web
>   payments group.
> Manu Sporny:  It might be good to see how each one of these
>   payment mechanisms works for mobile specifically
> Manu Sporny:  For example, how exactly is Square used on mobile?
>   That's a mobile use case. I don't know if Western Union has any
>   mobile use cases.
> Manu Sporny:  Square has the little card reader attachment that
>   plugs into the audio jack and you accept credit cards by swiping
>   through that, that's definnitely a mobile use case.
> Manu Sporny:  Amazon payments may not be super mobile heavy, for
>   example, use case may be different, maybe amazon payments
>   analysis goes in a separate web payments document
> Manu Sporny:  What do you think of that approach?
> Brent Shambaugh:  Ok.
> Manu Sporny:  I think Natasha is looking for mobile-specific
>   stuff ... you could argue anything could work on mobile, but
>   she's looking for example for things like NFC, bluetooth low
>   energy, and how those fit into the payment landscape.
> Manu Sporny:  For example if you're in a museum and you want to
>   buy a ticket you could use bluetooth low energy, there are some
>   proprietary mobile wallet solutions out there, we should include
>   those.
> Manu Sporny: We already have the Web Payments use cases here,
>   which is where we've been gathering over the past several years:
>   https://web-payments.org/specs/source/use-cases/
> Manu Sporny:  The other thing that we might want to do is to take
>   a look at the use cases for some of the newer initiatives, like
>   Bitcoin, Ripple, etc.
> Manu Sporny:  I don't know if you've seen this document before,
>   Brent?
> Manu Sporny:  Whatever you find out and create if it doesn't fit
>   in the mobile use cases document it should go in the Web Payments
>   use cases document
> Manu Sporny:  I don't know if i'd categorize the "use cases" on
>   Natasha's document for google wallet/paypal as use cases, they
>   are more like product features, which can still be a fine way to
>   go about it, but using use cases lets you genericize it and see
>   the commonality of it.
> Manu Sporny:  Both google and paypal let you pay via a wallet
>   system, that's a shared use case
> Manu Sporny:  They both have the ability to use a credit
>   card/debit card, that's a shared use case
> Manu Sporny:  The ones that are different are ... the paypal case
>   doesn't let you include card loyalty schemes whereas google does
> Manu Sporny:  At some point the work has to be done to go through
>   all payment mechanisms out there to list what they can and can't
>   do, so it has to be done anyway, the concern is that i'm not sure
>   if you'll be able to do all of that background to do it before
>   the end of march, i don't know if you have that kind of time
> Brent Shambaugh:  I don't know what i have planned this month
>   really, my assumption is that this will be a week by week thing
> Manu Sporny:  Yeah it is, by the end of the third week there
>   should be something pretty solid that Natasha can work with.
> Manu Sporny:  Maybe this is as simple as going to a website and
>   dumping a features list in there?
> Manu Sporny:  After we have that we can try and organize that
> Manu Sporny:  It would help if you linked each one of those to a
>   website
> Manu Sporny:  Then we could say we've got all the popular payment
>   companies on the web and then we can divvy up the work
> Manu Sporny:  It might be better to just put this all in a wiki
> Manu Sporny:  It's going to be hard to do PRs for each use case,
>   too much overhead, let's hack on it in a wiki quickly and then
>   put the end result in the document Natasha put together.
> Brent Shambaugh:  Using a wiki for cooperation might be good
> Manu sets up a wiki page for working on Payments and Mobile use
>   cases.
> Manu Sporny: Here's the mobile use cases wiki page:
>   https://www.w3.org/community/webpayments/wiki/WebPaymentsMobileUseCases
> Manu Sporny:  You can create a table to check off each feature
>   for each payment provider, etc.
> Manu Sporny:  I'll fill out a few examples like PaySwarm and
>   Stripe.
>
> Topic: Web Commerce API Vote
>
> Manu Sporny:
>   http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2014Feb/0119.html
> Manu Sporny:  We've got a good number of votes coming in, every
>   one is positive except for one.
> Manu Sporny:  I followed up with the person casting a negative
>   vote ... there was a miscommunication with what the purpose of
>   the spec is.
> Manu Sporny:  The person thought that the only way to initiate
>   payment was through the browser, but all the spec is trying to do
>   is standardize payment request and repsonse
> Manu Sporny:  Standardizing what the JSON looks like
> Manu Sporny:  The API in the document provides an example for how
>   it could be implemented in a browser, but the core of the
>   protocol should be able to be initiated by just doing HTTP and
>   the person that did the negative vote didn't think that was the
>   case.
> Manu Sporny:  You can do this without the need for something in
>   the browser itself
> Manu Sporny:  So it was a vote against the browser API (end to
>   end) and it wasn't against standardizing the request and response
>   format, the person that voted negatively would be fine with
>   standardizing those
> Manu Sporny:  There's a week left in the vote, I'll ping people
>   individually if they haven't already voted. I also failed to
>   specify fields for first and last name for the first 4 people
>   that voted, so they'll have to identify themselves for their
>   votes to stick. That was an unfortunate oversight on my part, I
>   think I know who 2 out of the 4 people are.
> Dave Longley:  Need to drop off. [scribe assist by David I. Lehn]
> David I. Lehn is scribing.
> Manu Sporny:  We needed Dave Longley to discuss the HTTP
>   Signatures stuff. Maybe we should make this call short?
> Evan Schwartz:  I'd like to hear a bit more about the Persona /
>   Web Identity spec stuff.
>
> Topic: Persona and Web Identity Spec
>
> Manu Sporny:  Mozilla been working on web identity system called
>   Persona.
> Manu Sporny:  Simple spec that just authenticated that you own a
>   particular email address.
> Manu Sporny:  You go to site and get digitally signed assertion
>   from email provider so you can sign in.
> Manu Sporny:  Mozilla Persona decoupled the assertion of who you
>   are from site you log into, very privacy conscious.
> Manu Sporny:  Made a polyfill for navigator api, that was the
>   other neat thing they did.
> Manu Sporny:  They could support hundreds of millions of people
>   logging in through persona.
> Manu Sporny:  The solution was partially centralized at first.
>   Then they suddenly published an "After Action Review", which you
>   typically do at the end of a project.
> Manu Sporny: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Identity/Persona_AAR
> Manu Sporny:  Two weeks ago posted after action review, then they
>   went silent.  It has become apparent that the entire persona team
>   has now been assigned to other projects.
> Manu Sporny:  Not tombstoned but put into maintenance mode.  Only
>   work will be volunteer based development, Persona will be kept
>   alive for the foreseeable future.
> Manu Sporny:  They are going to focus on Firefox accounts, more
>   vertical integration w/ FirefoxOS.
> Manu Sporny:  They sent out email last week detailing what's
>   going on:
> Manu Sporny:
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/mozilla.dev.identity/Qnxt8lmOEeo/fVtJrMDfOjMJ
> Manu Sporny:  They will try to get a blog post about the status
>   out some time this week.
> Manu Sporny:  If we want more features we'll have to go in and
>   implement them ourselves.
> Manu Sporny: https://web-payments.org/specs/source/web-identity/
> Manu Sporny:  We've got a web identity spec that is supposed to
>   integrate with Persona.
> Manu Sporny:  We're getting some interest from other large
>   organizations in the Web Identity spec and other people are
>   working on their own solutions.
> Manu Sporny:  Persona going into maintenance mode is a step
>   backwards for the Web. We wanted someone else to develop that
>   solution, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen.
> Manu Sporny:  The other spec out there is OpenID Connect.
> Manu Sporny:  Should the web identity spec be compatilble with
>   OpenID Connect?  It probably should be, we don't want to pick a
>   winner, but we may have to provide an alternative to OpenID
>   Connect.
> Manu Sporny:  There are other approaches out there as well, such
>   as Namecoin.
> Manu Sporny:  That is a fully decentralized solution.
> Manu Sporny:  Not clear where we should go at this point.
> Manu Sporny:  The web payments workshop is coming up.  Should
>   expect identity will be a big topic there. You need solid
>   identity for payments.
> Manu Sporny:  Should have alternatives to show for identity and
>   KYC before the workshop.
> Manu Sporny:  Any comments before we end the call?
> Manu Sporny:  Brent, we'll work on the use cases in the interim.
>   I'll get the first two examples filled out and then it'd help if
>   you get the rest.
> Manu Sporny:  We'll chat again next week. Bye!
>
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