W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webpayments@w3.org > June 2014

Fwd: Is payment "timeliness" addressed in our work yet?

From: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 11:00:53 -0400
Message-ID: <CAKcXiSrL9Cc2ZkaURFGpnEMYd42dGBS0yY4XW1LKz5aToC5Xnw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>

Take a look at "Immediate Funds Transfer: A Central Bank Perspective" from
the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond

Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
Mobile: 819-593-5983

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Dave Lampton <dave.lampton@gmail.com>

> Since its inception, PayPal has primarily made their money "on the float"
> meaning that during those few days they have your money, they are able to
> invest it in short-term money markets, etc. When you're dealing with such a
> large number of transactions, these investments can be very large and the
> returns quite handsome.
> I'm new to this group, but I have joined because I've been developing my
> own solutions for "digital money" and wanted to see what else is going on.
> So far, I am gathering that both the current WebPayments (PaySwarm)
> platform as well as other proposed alternatives like OpenTransact are still
> all based on email for the sending/receiving of payments, is that right?
> There is STILL no way for me to send $5 directly to my brother, for
> example. There is still always going to be at least one third party
> involved, and often more than one, just for me to give my brother five
> bucks. Or have I missed something?
> ...
> Has anyone discussed the development of something entirely new like a
> protocol especially used for nothing but financial transactions? My feeling
> is that email servers don't know what a payment is and never will be able
> to do anything with one. End users are still dependent on a third-party to
> move money to/from their bank accounts.
> On the other hand, I have a much more complete system for digital money
> developed in my mind if anyone is interested. If our money were held by our
> own digital accounts, we could send money to one another just like we can
> already hand one another cash without any third-party involvement. (it
> would even put into question the need for banks!) A super brief overview
> follows:
> First off, this idea would actually require governments/central banks to
> issue the digital currency that could subsequently only live in my proposed
> digital accounts. Yes, I realize that's a huge hurdle to expect their
> involvement at any stage, but frankly, I think it is the only real way to
> solve the larger problems permanently.
> So, what if every financial account in the world were assigned a permanent
> URL (either a domain or subdomain that is owned by the account holder).
> Every website already requires a domain, so it's not a big leap to require
> every digital account to also have a domain or subdomain (and with the
> advent of IPv6 we'll have so many IP addresses at our disposal, it's
> absurd). Ownership of digital accounts and the transfer of their ownership
> would all be handled using the same mechanisms we use today to manage
> domains using registrars and DNS. In this case, every digital dollar must
> have a home in a digital account somewhere. Each digital dollar knows its
> issuing bank, its unique serial number, its current owner (holding account)
> and
> Essentially, a digital account would be a new type of Internet endpoint,
> one that is similar to the function of an email server, but only processes
> financial transactions. It would be addressed in much the same way that
> email servers have an MX record in DNS, the currency servers might have a
> CX record. In my mind, the easiest way to implement something like this
> would be with a Node.js server using secure WebSockets (wss://) and a
> simple NoSQL document store, most likely a MongoDB instance. The software
> itself could be so simple as to be mindless, not even needing
> configuration, knowing only how to either send or receive currency, nothing
> more.
> Lastly, my ideas to keep it all secure turn the traditional cryptographic
> methods upside-down. Rather than make every financial transaction in the
> world a big freakin' secret, I would instead make every transaction
> completely public and recorded by a whole lot of people at once. It would
> be impossible to fake because only the central banks will transmit
> transaction confirmations, but everyone will be keeping copies of them as
> they happen on their network segments, and records can be looked up by
> anyone at any time. However, to be fair to everyone, money must have no
> memory, and so only the current owner is known for a given piece of
> currency, previous owners are purged from the records when a new
> transaction is confirmed.
> There are lots more details to all of this if anyone is interested.
> Not sure if perhaps you're all more interested in forwarding the
> established ideas, but I wanted to throw this out there since I still do
> not yet see any proposals which would allow me to send that $5 directly to
> my brother!!  :)
> thanks.
> Dave Lampton
> * @dave_lampton <https://twitter.com/dave_lampton>*
> * DaveLampton <https://www.facebook.com/DaveLampton>  +DaveLampton
> <https://www.google.com/+DaveLampton>*
> www.linkedin.com/in/davelampton/
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca> wrote:
>> I don't recall seeing anything specific yet about basic timeliness of
>> web payments.
>> Here's an example. In the course of having some funds reimbursed to me
>> by a business via PayPal, I then transferred the money from my PayPal
>> account to my bank account. Once that transaction was processed via
>> the PayPal site, I recieved the following emaIl message:
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: service@intl.paypal.com <service@intl.paypal.com>
>> Date: Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 7:03 AM
>> Subject: We're transferring money to your bank
>> To: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
>> We're transferring money from PayPal to your bank
>> Jun 3, 2014 07:03:36 GMT-04:00
>> Hello Joseph Potvin,
>> You asked us to transfer $XXX.XX CAD from PayPal to your bank account,
>> and we're processing it now. It usually takes 3-5 business days for
>> transfers like this to go through, so you should see the money in your
>> bank account by Jun 10, 2014.
>> -----------------------------------------------
>> Huh?  3-5 business days?   But the ACH system clears at least every day.
>> Does anyone here know in which organization's hands the money sits for
>> 3-5 days? And why?
>> Is this a delay due to some slow anti-launderiing verification
>> processes mandated by government?
>> Alternatively I can imagine there's a cloth bag tied with sisal
>> containing my $XXX.XX CAD being loaded onto a side-bag of a donkey,
>> getting ready to make the trek in this direction. I'm fine with that.
>> Just need to know though.
>> --
>> Joseph Potvin
>> Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
>> The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
>> jpotvin@opman.ca
>> Mobile: 819-593-5983

Joseph Potvin
Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations
The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman
Mobile: 819-593-5983
Received on Tuesday, 3 June 2014 15:01:41 UTC

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