Re: Semantic web - web-payments website.

Hi Manu,


On 12 Apr 2014, at 12:46 am, Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com> wrote:

> On 04/11/2014 01:49 AM, Timothy Holborn wrote:
>> On the front page of that sight, have something perhaps headlined
>> (like products, transactions, etc.) that says something like
>> "semantic web", then described by stating something along the lines
>> of "the premise of the web-payments specification is to incorporate
>> semantic web requirements into a functional specification for the use
>> in commerce",
> 
> -1
> 
> We have very purposefully avoided the "semantic web" terminology because
> it is reviled by many outside of the Semantic Web community. "Linked
> Data" seems to be a phrase that people like, so we use that.
> Additionally, it is a means to an end. It's just plumbing behind the
> wall that most people don't need to know about unless they're actually
> working on this stuff. So, while we may want to link to a video and
> describe it in more detail, we shouldn't put too much focus on it
> (because not many people care that we're using Linked Data).
> 
> We're using it because it solves a problem, just like we're using HTTP,
> REST, HTML because they solve specific problems.
> 

I’m good with the idea of Linked-Data being the ‘lead term’, and understand your considerations around the term ‘semantic web’ however, this did all start (meaning usable standards in-line with concepts, etc.) through a group of documents (so far as i’m aware) written http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/ - which has an array of terms that i think it’s good to maintain. 

People might not like the idea of ‘semantic web’ or their systems may be no-where near the concept and therefore they feel threatened by the term; or mkt. dollars might go into products that are not nor never will be designed (from a business systems point of view) in a manner that is compliant with the concept of semantic web - but it is semantic web, or web3, of which of course linked-data is an essential element.

We’ve set-up http://www.w3.org/community/webize/ - obviously more about the app side, rather than the standards side; however, I think that whilst you may believes people don’t care about linked-data, i think it’s important to understand that without it; the benefits of any new standards would be much less compelling.  i therefore believe it’s a key ingredient from a BizTech point of view.

In my experience; most people aren’t interested because they don’t understand it.  once they’ve spent the time to get to understand it; then they go on about it and generally get really excited; BUT, it is a bit painful for quite sometime before they even start to get past the first few barriers.   

I think these barriers will be coming down more soon, due to activity in other areas.   I also think that REST, HTTP, HTML are known concepts / terms - people understand it. People don’t understand linked-data. 

>> Perhaps an introduction to "semantic web" (given in-part we need the 
>> eyes and ears of commercial stakeholders, so using mkt. Language is
>> also needed, to give some understanding around why we're bothering to
>> revisit the concept of web-payments standards..)
> 
> Agreed, we've tried to do this before:
> 
> What is Linked Data?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x_xzT5eF5Q
> 
> What is JSON-LD?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vioCbTo3C-4
> 
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/04/web-payments-with-payswarm-identity-part-1-of-3/
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/04/payswarm-part-2/
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/04/web-payments-with-payswarm-purchasing-part-3-of-3/
> 
> The question is - why didn't those have the effect that we wanted?
> 

I think they’re good - but their not on the webpage.  we could create ‘zones’ for users with different interests  / landing pages - so we can engage different people who’ve got different levels of interests / responsibilities and explain the concepts (on the website) in different languages (whilst being written in english..) IMHO.  

>> I'm particularly interested in business cases that relate to data, 
>> rather than commerce.
> 
> Data (especially in offers and digital receipts) is a big part of what
> we're doing. You're going to have to elaborate more on how this interest
> of yours leads us to make changes in the documents we have or write new
> ones. Keep in mind that if it can be expressed in a blog post, that's a
> good place to start the discussion.
> 

k.  will have a think about it.

tim.h.
> -- manu
> 
> -- 
> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
> blog: The Marathonic Dawn of Web Payments
> http://manu.sporny.org/2014/dawn-of-web-payments/
>