- From: Joseph Potvin <jpotvin@opman.ca>
- Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 22:38:09 -0500
- To: Web Payments CG <public-webpayments@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAKcXiSrmo+tUJjyz84yqZ=dL8och-SDC3ad2hcGm+OttSd+zNA@mail.gmail.com>
The topic of what could or should be backing a currency is a very big matter, not only in significance globally, but also in terms of the volume of essential discussion needed. My worry here is that it could involve considerable off-topic conversation for the "webpayments" list. I will therefore limit my comments here to the intersection of the two topics: "web payments" and "vehicle currency". I have adjusted the subject line accordingly, since this matter is of generic concern, and is not unique to Ripple or XRP. Let me introduce the existing phrase "vehicle currency" with a google search link: https://www.google.ca/#q=%22vehicle+currency%22 ... in order to illustrate that the "medium of exchange" role discussed in relation to XRP within Ripple is not unique. Example: "In this sense the dollar acts as a ‘vehicle currency’, i.e., a medium of exchange between currencies." http://www.economics.ubc.ca/files/2013/05/pdf_paper_michael-devereux-vehicle-currency-2011.pdf In systems design the well-known aphorism that it's best "when form fits function" is always good to keep in mind. I mentioned earlier three consensus functions of money, but more generally I include a fourth which is greatly enhanced in the digital currency era: (1) a medium of exchange (2) a unit of account (3) a standard of deferred payment (requiring that it be a stable store of value) (4) a system of information The Ripple "paths" concept illustrates nicely why economists generally have "medium of exchange" separate from "unit of account". When there's a need to accomplish an EUR→CLP conversion, the vendor, or the purchaser, or the transaction intermediary might find it most convenient to accomplish this as EUR→USD | USD→CLP. The vehicle currency function is a much larger proportion of conventional international trade than most people realize. For just one nicely illustrated empirical study, this paper reports the following: Italian Imports (2010) 43.4% “Vehicle” currency 36.6% Importer's currency (€) 20.0% Exporter's currency Italian Exports (2010) 19.6% “Vehicle” currency 7.7% Importer's currency 72.2% Exporter's currency (€) Luigi Ventura and Mark David Witte. 2011. "An Empirical Examination of the Currency Denomination of Trade" https://editorialexpress.com/cgi-bin/conference/download.cgi?db_name=MWITFall2011&paper_id=70 That's to say, when Italian wines or Alfa Romeos are being sold to Chile, the transaction may not be in EUR or CLP, but in USD. The USD has been an all-purpose workhorse for all four of the functions of money, so in our minds each function blends into another as a big conceptual blob. The elegant thing about discussing web payments is that we get to separate out the precise functions being served, and we have the opportunity to tailor form to function. My concern with the current design of XRP is that the "medium of exchange" function is unnecessarily conflated with the "standard of deferred payment" function. I say "poorly" because the part about a stable store of value is missing. It instability to the up-side is precisely what has Ripple Labs investors excited. But here's the problem. When The Fed needs more "liquidity" they type more USD units into their databases and give that a fancy name and some procedural mumbo jumbo so it doens't seem quite as simple as it is. But when they need to "unwind", they can and do, with some impact. The money they conjured in, then gets conjured out of existence. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/9763c2d2-d9c5-11e2-bab1-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=intl#axzz2lFNfKtN6 The ideal digital "medium of exchange" vehicle currency is one that gets conjured in and conjured out of existence in the time it takes to carry out the transaction, so that form is precisely matched to function. There absolutely no need to keep any in a reserve -- they are virtual after all! Joking about the separate store of value function I suggested to declare 1 XRP=1 banana, which is at least more generic and value-convertible than 1 XRP = 1 very very happy Ripple Labs Investor. I've got nothing at all against Ripple Labs Investors. I just don't know what their happiness has to do with web payments functionality. (Of course, when I refer to XRP, read also BTC and any other such system.) In monetary theory and actual practice there used to be the (key!) concept of ultimate value convertibility. Should the currency system implode, I could always convert my holding to "x", whatever that was. It might be an inconvenience, but I can usefully take (or thus trade) delivery on 1000 bananas or an ounce of gold. However I can't access the happy feelings of a cryptocurrency investor, especially if their cryptocurrency has just imploded. A couple of people have raised the topic of an energy unit definition of money. There's considerable literature on that. My own work on an "Earth Reserve" system would include (but is not limited to) a unit referred to as "exergy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exergy http://www.theoildrum.com/node/7016 I'll follow up later on this topic.... Joseph Potvin On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Fabio Barone <holon.earth@gmail.com> wrote: > That's the same question I have. > > The only answer I have so far is that it would allow comparison. > BTC or XRP only have value when compared to USD or EUR. > Now, if we could arrange (market-driven) prices to say 1.5 BTC = 2 > EnergyUnits, > I may have an idea of how much XRPs I can expect/I am willing to invest for > a specific transaction. > > maybe ;) > > > 2013/11/20 Patrick Logan <patrickdlogan@gmail.com> > >> But I have no idea why I, as a holder of one of your notes, would care >> how much energy you can "reference" unless I have the ability to >> exchange my note for your energy? >> >> (I'm missing something fundamenta;.) >> >> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Fabio Barone <holon.earth@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> My first thought is, how could that be? Currency is virtual and can be >> >> exchanged virtually for relatively little energy. >> >> >> >> Energy is not (yet) at all stable and is not efficiently exchanged >> >> across significant distance. In fact in the US at least for multiple >> >> reasons, we need to put a lot of energy *into* decentralizing our >> >> energy generation. >> >> >> > Good question. I think it is not about exchanging intrinsic value of >> energy, >> > but about by reference to... >> > > -- Joseph Potvin Operations Manager | Gestionnaire des opérations The Opman Company | La compagnie Opman http://www.projectmanagementhotel.com/projects/opman-portfolio jpotvin@opman.ca Mobile: 819-593-5983 LinkedIn (Google short URL): http://goo.gl/Ssp56
Received on Thursday, 21 November 2013 03:38:59 UTC