Web Payments Telecon Minutes for 2011-09-16

The minutes for yesterday's call are now available here, thanks to Jeff 
Sayre for scribing:

http://payswarm.com/minutes/2011-09-16/

Full text of the discussion follows, as well as a link to the complete
audio transcript:

Web Payments Community Group Telecon Minutes for 2011-09-16

Agenda:
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments/2011Sep/0001.html
Chair:
    Manu Sporny
Scribe:
    Jeff Sayre
Present:
    Jeff Sayre, Manu Sporny, Jose 'Manny' De Loera, David I. Lehn

Jeff Sayre is scribing.
Today's agenda: Use cases (in scope/out of scope); familiarize
    members in web payments techs

Topic: Introductions

Manu Sporny: We have a new participant - would you mind
    introducing yourself, Manny?
Jose 'Manny' De Loera:  Hi my name is Jose De Loera, but most
    people call me Manny. Recent grad of DeVry - technical management
    - have a big interest in technology, saw Web Payments stuff pop
    up online, wanted to get involved.
Manu Sporny:  Great to have you here, Manny.
Manu Sporny:  Agenda today is to try and cover use cases - we
    want to ground the discussion - focus on what we're working on.
    We want to get everyone familiar w/ various technologies applied
    to these problems. Let's go ahead an jump into first topic.

Topic: PaySwarm Use Cases Review

Manu Sporny: http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-use-cases
Manu Sporny:  PaySwarm use cases may be out of date. There are 10
    initially that may be useful to consider
Manu Sporny:  Will do quick overview of use case and get members'
    feelings about usefulness

Topic: For-profit Content Redistribution

Manu Sporny:
    http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-use-cases#for-profit-content-blogging
Manu Sporny:  For profit content blogging -- reviews of music,
    book, etc. Want to provide value in digital content artists.
    Point people to artists content that is available online for
    sale... sell other people's content directly via a blog. This is
    digital content sales - not necessarily access to Web pages.
Jeff Sayre:  No middle man required - direct sale of item from
    artist to customer/fan - good use case. [scribe assist by Manu
    Sporny]
Manu Sporny:  requirement separation between users who create,
    distribute, and consume. Content distributor has to respect
    license put forth by artist.
Manu Sporny:  Artist may be fine with marking up content to a
    certain level, let prices be set independently from other
    distributors. But artist would get the same required fee per sale
    regardless of who is distributing the content.
Manu Sporny:  creator sets base royalties independent of the sale
    price, those are enforced by the system. Content distributor has
    the ability to then markup the sale price above the base fee to
    also make a profit - good for the artist, good for the content
    distributor.
Manu Sporny:  Is this a good use case?
Jeff Sayre: +1
Jose 'Manny' De Loera:  I like the PaySwarm model of allowing
    content distributors the opportunity to set their own retail
    price. Brick & mortar retail sales often do not allow much of a
    market up beyond listed, street price. This will allow digital
    sales sites more flexibility and content creators better chances
    of a sale.
Manu Sporny:  Having the widest, broadest distribution channel as
    possible is desirable to content creators. Good, so since there
    are no objections, we'll add this one to the list of
    requirements.
Manu Sporny:  Second Use Case: crowdsourcing of digital
    distribution. We were able to implement this for Bitmunk -
    peer-to-peer collaborative distribution platform - used
    micropayments to reimburse digital content distributors for each
    part of the digital file that they provided for download.
    Respected copyright, distribution restrictions setup by original
    artist.

Topic: Crowd-sourcing Digital Distribution

Manu Sporny:
 
http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-use-cases#crowd-sourcing-digital-distribution
Manu Sporny:  Bitmunk is like a BitTorrent w/ payment attached.
    Current PaySwarm technology supports it in theory, but this might
    be a little too much to focus on at this stage due to client
    complexity required to implement it correctly.
Manu Sporny:  Example: what if every single customer of a NetFlix
    download could act as a data provider, piecing out fractional
    bits of the file to a paying customer. So, when you download from
    1,000+ people, each one is remunerated for the piece of content
    that they provide.
Jeff Sayre:  It's an interesting model - swarming for bits of
    micropayments - it may be too complicated at this point. [scribe
    assist by Manu Sporny]
Jose 'Manny' De Loera:  Everyone having the right to swarm a
    NetFLix file, for example, would have to have a PaySwarm account,
    permission (access) to a data provider's computer, etc. The
    complexity and scope might be outside our initial focus.
David I. Lehn: Let's keep this (swarming) in mind for possible
    future implementation, but not add it to the list of use cases
    for PaySwarm 1.0.
Manu Sporny:  If rejected as a use case, let's not reject it as a
    possibility for the future.
Jose 'Manny' De Loera:  The additive benefit of allowing for
    swarming of content form a data provider could add up to a
    reasonable revenue stream over time.
Manu Sporny:  PaySwarm's swarming concept would benefit companies
    like NetFLix, would reduce data center loads. It could also allow
    new competitors to enter the market without needing to have large
    data centers to stream traffic.
David I. Lehn: maybe we could put these "rejected but useful" use
    cases into a "roadmap" document
Manu Sporny:  We could possibly create a PaySwarm's Roadmap 2.0
    and add use cases that we want to support in the future on to
    that doc.
Manu Sporny:  Ok, so this use case is rejected for PaySwarm 1.0,
    but we'll move it into a future "Road Map" document.

Topic: Streaming Content Payments

Manu Sporny:
    http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-use-cases#streaming-content-payment
Manu Sporny:  Next up is Streaming Content Payment
Manu Sporny:  In US, as an example, Internet Radio Stations have
    to pay a standard ephemeral broadcasting fee per song, per play,
    per person. This use case is a way to help address this scenario
    - how does one setup an Internet Radio station and easily collect
    broadcast royalties.
Manu Sporny:  Pick a PaySwarm provider, sign in, based on what
    you listen to, your account will be debited for the required fee
    and credited directly to the artist's account. Let's the DJ/radio
    station address the issue easily, helping them focus on providing
    good music and not the nasty bits of collecting tiny fractions of
    royalties. Makes expenses low and accounting very precise. Could
    be applied to any streaming movies and television as well. Pay $x
    per y time viewed or listened.
Manu Sporny:  This use case works today in the PaySwarm software
    - so it would be easy to put into the spec. The difference
    between for-profit blogging is that user pays for content in one
    lump sum. This is a pay-as-you-go option for streaming of
    content.
Jose 'Manny' De Loera:  Question - say a radio station charges
    $15 per month for listening to all of a station's content. What
    does PaySwarm offer?
Manu Sporny:  PaySwarm does allow a flat rate per payment option
    -- like Flattr. The fee is used up each month no matter how much
    content is consumed. But the pay as you go is an a la carte
    model. So, you might spend $15 per month, less, or more. You just
    need to authorize that money is pulled from your PaySwarm account
    with set limits put on deductions. It would be up to the person
    that pulled money from your PaySwarm account to disburse the
    $15... but that's not necessarily the same thing as
    pay-as-you-go.
Jeff Sayre:  I think pay-as-you-go is crucial for digital content
    distribution - need it for version 1.0 [scribe assist by Manu
    Sporny]
Jose 'Manny' De Loera:  Even though I will not necessarily use
    it, I agree that the pay-as-you-go use case should be in version
    1.0 of the standard.
Manu Sporny:  iTunes, Spotify, Last.fm, Pandora have their own
    payment models. Maybe there is another market that desires a
    different model, that will allow others to offer competing models
    without worrying about how payments are done. Content creator's
    rights can be respected without each new content distributor
    having to think about what they need to do to honor licensing
    rights.
David I. Lehn:  Need to support this use case. May not be a big
    deal to add it to PaySwarm's core spec because it kind of falls
    out of what we already do.
David I. Lehn:  It probably just requires that the appropriate
    ephemeral broadcasting contracts get setup.
Manu Sporny:  Ok, so this use case is in there - seems like
    everyone likes it. Next up is Ad-based support of digital media
    streams - like television shows with ads to cover the cost of the
    show.

Topic: Ad-based Content Payments/Incentives

Manu Sporny:
    http://payswarm.com/specs/payswarm-use-cases#ad-based-content-payment
Jeff Sayre:  I wonder if this will also fall under some of the
    other basic spec stuff. An ad exec could still use PaySwarm to
    purchase ads, or a director could still sell ads. Should it be
    something we specifically target? I'm not sure. [scribe assist by
    Manu Sporny]
Jeff Sayre:  Ad-slots are still something you could sell...
    whether it's a digital file or specific ad spot - still a sale.
    [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
This use case was inspired by Joss Whedon great shows and
    television execs' poor judgement. ;) This use case would allow
    directors/producers to support Web-based production via selling
    ad spots, via generating ad revenue to support Web-based video
    distribution
Jeff Sayre:  Producing a Web-based series or a single show... if
    you're going to generate all your revenue online - no studio
    budget. You need sponsorship through users and through
    advertisers. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Jeff Sayre:  maybe users aren't buying the content - they're
    funding the content - they're crowd-funding. [scribe assist by
    Manu Sporny]
Jeff Sayre:  Maybe they're paying for additional shows down the
    road. It's a sponsorship of some sort - maybe they love the
    concept and want to fund it further. Maybe the advertiser wants
    to promote their product. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Jeff Sayre:  This is basically dealing directly with the content
    creator - "We love this concept, move it to the web and we'll
    support you through PaySwarm." [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Jose 'Manny' De Loera:  Ratings give TV shows a type of
    acknowledgement and lead to a show staying on air or being
    canceled.
Manu Sporny:  It seems like everyone wants a crowd-funding focus.
    PaySwarm can support this. Let's add a crowdfunding use case
Manu Sporny:  Ad-Based Content Payment pushed to PaySwarm 2.0 -
    put it in the Road Map document.
Manu Sporny:  We only covered a small part of the agenda today,
    which is fine - we need to understand which problems we're
    tackling in order to be successful at what we're doing. Let's set
    up another call for a week from now to continue the discussion.

-- manu

-- 
Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny)
President/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
blog: PaySwarm Developer Tools and Demo Released
http://digitalbazaar.com/2011/05/05/payswarm-sandbox/

Received on Saturday, 17 September 2011 21:03:09 UTC