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[use cases] Meeting minutes for 2015-03-05 telecon

From: Manu Sporny <msporny@digitalbazaar.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 13:14:38 -0500
Message-ID: <54F89D0E.3020609@digitalbazaar.com>
To: Web Payments IG <public-webpayments-ig@w3.org>
The minutes for today's Web Payments IG Use Cases Task Force telecon can
be found here:


Full text of the meeting follows:

Present: Ian, David, Manu, Laurent
Scribe: Ian, Dave

1. Timing of Calls
2. Web Payments IG Deliverables
3. Single Narrative for Web Payments Use Cases

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Manu to integrate Ian and Dave Ragget's basic narrative
into use cases document, integrate examples of micro-usecase
alternatives into use cases document, and integrate alternate narratives
into an appendix in the use cases document.

<Ian> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/ExecSummary
<Ian> yes
<Ian> scribe: Ian
<scribe> scribe: Dave
<scribe> scribenick: dsr
Manu sets out the agenda

Ian suggests payment flow conversation take place on Mondayís call with

Ö re Evertís diagram, the glossary and so forth

Manu: letís talk a bit today if we get to it

Timing of Calls

<Ian> Manu: Alibaba has requested to move the call earlier. We could
move it to 10am ET on Thursdays
Manu: Alibaba has propsed we bring the call forward by 2 hours.

Any thoughts on these 2 options?

<Ian> IJ: Simpler to have 1 time; I don't have experience with
alternating times
<Ian> DSR: We are trying alternating times in the web of things IG.
<Ian> ...rather, we have two calls
Ian: I donít have any experiece with alternating timeslots, but suggest
a fixed time is less confusing

Dave: WoT IG alternates between 9am and 6pm UTC but this isnít good when
you want to have people from America and Asia in the same call.

David: I think Alibaba wants the call to start before midnight their time.
... I think that Alibaba may be more interested in the use cases work
than the main call, given their email input on use cases in particular.

Manu: letís try 10am ET on Thursday and see if that makes them happier

Ian: shall I update the page to reflect that?

Manu: yes

Dave: we may want to check what the timezone will be for Alibaba given
that the US changes on Sunday.

<Ian> RESOLUTION: Weekly use cases call now 10:00am ET on Thursdays.
Web Payments IG Deliverables

Ian presents his list of things we should do in respect to the use cases

Ian: weíre working on an executive summary to communicate this. It
doesnít mention the deliverables though.

I hope it provides a better structure for the way we describe the use cases.

Manu: I feel that if we produce several documents it could get
confusing. I would prefer to have the architecture and requirements in
the same document.

<Ian> Please note that these are called out as separate deliverables,
but how we implement them (e.g., one or multiple documents) has not been
<Ian> http://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp-ucr/
Ian: conceptually these are different pieces but they could go in the
same document.

<Ian> http://www.w3.org/TR/powerful-features/
<Ian> http://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/
Ian cites an example of a requirements document with use cases included,
although not called out.

<Ian> http://www.w3.org/TR/xquery-30-requirements/
The Xquery requirements document omits use cases. I would like to
discuss the rationale for the choices before us.

<Zakim> Laurent_, you wanted to raise a question on the single narrative
I think we could shrink the current use cases document considerably. I
am playing around to see what feels practical and will then provide my
advice to the IG

Laurent: just wanted to check with Ian the purpose of the single
narrative approach

<Ian> Payment Narrative
<Ian> ---
<Ian> Description: To help illustrate the (somewhat abstract) steps of a
typical transaction, it is useful to have a single narrative that covers
all of the steps at a high enough level to be understandable by a very
general audience. Once the reader has a solid grasp of the steps of a
payment, it will be easier to understand how the use cases have been
organized. Note: It may be useful to create a number of these "complete
narratives" for different scenarios.
<Ian> ---
<Zakim> manu, you wanted to mention that we're going to talk about
Payment Narrative in the next topic
Laurent: a single narrative is what I would call a use case. I want us
to give the impression that we are enabling a level playing field.

Manu: I agree that we need to talk about that, and will do so in the
next agendum.

Laurent: as a small detail for the reqs doc, it would be useful to keep
the scope out of it

Ian: whatever we have in phase 1, we have use cases for the focus for
that phase

We will have a different kind of scope for the technical work

Dave notes that explanatory text for use cases could cover a range of
alternative payment instruments

Ian: W3M would love us if we can come up with several WG charters later
this year.

David: my phone is dying, I will send some feedback to Ian later today

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to say that we need a "slide deck" on here for
Manu: I think weíre missing a standard set of slides with talking points
we can show at public events etc.

<Ian> https://www.w3.org/Payments/IG/wiki/Communications_Strategy_Task_Force
Ian: yes. There are things officially produced by the IG versus
supporting materials produced by IG members.

Ö I would like a slide deck that is IG approved.

Manu: I would like some core material that we individually can include
in our presentations

Ian: I will make a note to track the idea and think about it some more
... on Monday we can ask if the approach works for people and discuss
the split across documents

We will also need to identify the editor for the document(s)

Manu: anything else on the comms strategy? Sounds good to us so far

Single Narrative for Web Payments Use Cases

<Ian> http://www.w3.org/2015/02/wpay-sample.html
<manu> http://www.w3.org/2015/02/wpay-sample.html
Ian: I had 2 thoughts. Do the steps make sense as described. This is not
intended to cover everything the IG wants to address

Ö the idea is to use one use case narrative and apply it to explain the
payment flow.

Laurent: concerned that it gives too much emphasis to one payment method
and could bias people reading it

<Ian> +1 to second narrative
Ian: I think we could address your concern by giving a 2nd narrative.

<Ian> +1 to Laurent creating second 1 :))
Laurent: for a non card payment

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to mention that we need to ground the 'phases'
with something.
Manu: I am a bit concerned about giving all these examples of flows.

Whatís missing is a high level account of how everything fits together

It isnít a comprehensive account, but rather an introduction. We can
then get into more detais with the micro use cases.

<Ian> [IJ also sees that Manu's integrated approach could work]
If we can get 3 or 4 alternatives that should show the flexibility

Manu: I think we only need the high level account for a single
narrative, is that good for you Laurent?

Laurent: if you cover 2 or 3 narratives it would work better

I definitely like the full range with the micro use case approach

<Ian> Laurent: +1 to micro use cases to cover the scenarios; 2-3 full
narratives as examples
<Ian> dsr: The email I sent with high-level single perspective
narratives...that could be a single document
<manu> dsr: The email I sent w/ high-level perspectives/narratives -
that could be one document targeted at people that want to ignore the
<Ian> ....the kind of explanation you want to do in a second doc, that
focuses on a separate audience
<Zakim> Ian, you wanted to say I was imagining separate doc and to add
that having multiple narratives makes more sense to me in a separate
doc...but see one as better in same doc as use
Ian: if we have an extended narrative just before the micro use cases,
this would work.

If we did 3 then I would prefer to have the full set later, e.g. in an

Ian: I would like to have a look at Daveís email again.

<Zakim> Laurent_, you wanted to react on Dave's mail
I like to keep things short and simple to understand

Laurent: why not write 2 or 3 use case narratives in more detail and
point to them as a separate document
... I like user centric narratives, that is important for W3C for using
facing narratives.

some of daveís narratives are too far from the IGís focus.

<Zakim> manu, you wanted to mention that people will skip over the links.
<Ian> Manu: Risk of multiple pages is that people will miss them.
Manu: I worry that people may not follow the links

It is less of a risk if we have a single document. We could use the
first working draft as an experiment and see how people react

<Laurent_> +1 on iterating
Ö and the use the comments to improve the structure for the next draft

<Ian> +1 always on iterating :0
Manu: I prefer to have a single extended narrative followed by the micro
use cases

Ian: everbody loves iteration so no complaints from me on that

I think we can rely on appendices for details, but want to ensure that
readers understand what we are trying to convey

<Laurent_> +1 on one main narrative + other ones in annexes / end of
<manu> +1 I could live with that - other narratives in appendices
Ian: my other comment is about Laurentís convergence point. The IG is
chartered to support convergence between web and payment terms in brick
& mortar stores. Is this something we do from the start or get to later?

Laurent: we need to reach agreement on scope. Right now I think our
scope is too broad

this risks slow progress

Manu: agree that we want to not take on too many work items.

I want to reach an agreement on immediate next steps.

<Ian> +1 to micro use cases, narrative, and micro-narratives
a. move narratives into the use cases document

<Ian> (Notes: IJ's narrative is incomplete. Dave's might be split
between micro-use cases and micro-narratives; need to see)
<manu> PROPOSAL: Integrate Ian and Dave Raggett's basic narrative into
use cases document, integrate examples of micro-usecase alternatives
into use cases document, and integrate alternate narratives into an
appendix in the use cases document.
Ian: I really like making the use cases simpler and easier to explain to
people outside of the IG

Manu and Laurent check their understanding of terms for micro use cases

Dave notes the current document is very hard to follow
Received on Thursday, 5 March 2015 18:15:14 UTC

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