W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webid@w3.org > May 2014

Re: Releasing RWW.IO

From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
Date: Mon, 05 May 2014 08:13:08 -0400
Message-ID: <53678054.8020106@openlinksw.com>
To: public-webid@w3.org
On 5/4/14 11:39 PM, Tim Holborn wrote:
> On 5 May 2014, at 7:29 am, Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com 
> <mailto:kidehen@openlinksw.com>> wrote:
>> On 5/3/14 7:42 AM, Anders Rundgren wrote:
>>> On 2014-05-03 13:19, Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>>>> On 3 May 2014 10:08, Anders Rundgren <anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com> 
>>>> <mailto:anders.rundgren.net@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>     Now I have tried it out as well including the micro-blogging.
>>>> Awesome.  I typed your name "A n d e r" into the channel finder and 
>>>> your webid came up after about 3 letters.  I'm now following you.
>>>>     It was cool with one exception, TLS CCA (Client Certificate 
>>>> Authentication)
>>>>     Logging in to http://cimba.co required me to select certificate 
>>>> twice and
>>>>     from a pretty long list of non-WebID certificates.
>>>>     Unless W3C gets their act together and creates a web-compliant 
>>>> replacement
>>>>     for TLS CCA, WebID won't ever catch on.  I have no faith in W3C 
>>>> for taking
>>>>     any action on this since not even the requirements have ever 
>>>> been discussed.
>>>>     TLS is a sacred cow.
>>>> I think there's a slight distinction between WebID and WebID+TLS.
>>>> WebID itself is independent of the auth mechanism.
>>> Yes, this enhancement was introduced as a "workaround".
>> Not a workaround, a point of fundamental clarity.
>> Conflating things never works. WebID as the moniker for WebID-TLS 
>> protocol was a piece of poor marketing and technology evangelism. 
>> This bug has been fixed, and we just need to make this crystal clear 
>> to everyone.
> WebID-TLS was the single most important entry-point to my work with W3 
> Community groups - through a rather significant amount of time with 
> Henry Story helping me get my head around the basics of the groups, 
> no-less…
> Not suggesting my ’linked-data’ story doesn’t go back further than 
> that - started in 2000 - but i saw the merit in the practical solution 
> WebID-TLS Provided then, and i still do now.  If there are 
> alternatives, i think we should encourage them also.

Yes, WebID-TLS is one of many authentication protocols. My point is that 
we don't conflate that with WebID (an HTTP URI that denotes an Agent).

Separating Identity, Identification, and authentication is vital, 
otherwise all efforts will remain susceptible to all the confusion that 
arises from concerns conflation. In my experience, confusion is the 
biggest impediment adoption as it makes concept comprehension 
artificially difficult.

>> A WebID is simply an HTTP URI that denotes an Agent. That's it.
> i think that’s certainly an interpretation - but not the only one 
> that’s dictated by technology eco-systems, yet, perhaps…

It isn't an interpretation, that's the definition in the spec.

WebID != WebID-TLS .

> Web of Trust is an important element to many meritorious concepts - i 
> see the work carried out within WebID as an important constituent of 
> this undertaking, still in its infancy.
Building a Web of Trust requires loose coupling of:

1. identity -- this is denotation comes into play

2. identification -- handled by documents comprised of verifiable 
identity claims (represented using entity relationship statements 
endowed with human and machine discernible entity relation semantics)

3. authentication -- actual protocols used to verify identity claims.


>>>> One hope was that mozilla labs would help with the UX, as below.
>>>> http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/identity-in-the-browser-firefox/<http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/identity-in-the-browser-firefox/>
>>> That's where it gets wrong, there is no UX problem to solve. It is the
>>> underpinning TLS CCA scheme that is the sole culprit which is why 
>>> Google,
>>> Microsoft, Paypal, RSA, ARM (!), etc. abandoned it in favor of U2F.
>> Yes, and all this really means is simply this: incorporate as much of 
>> WebID-TLS into U2F as possible. That's what we will do, as our 
>> natural instinct, at OpenLink Software.
>>> Your best option at this stage is probably defining a WebID-U2F profile.
>> Yep! As per my comments above.
>>> Personally, I'm not overly interested in U2F, it is much simpler making
>>> client-side X.509 "web-compatible" by building on the already 
>>> established
>>> schemes out there.
>> Yes, but that's a problem due to the manner in which Browsers have 
>> been implemented and the impossible politics that swirls around 
>> getting them to fix this flaw.
>> Kingsley
>>> Anders
>>>>     Fortunately Google hadn't any problems slaughtering this poor 
>>>> creature
>>>>     when they started their U2F project which have created a hype I 
>>>> haven't
>>>>     seen before during my 15Y+ in the "id-business".  It didn't take an
>>>>     eternity either.
>>>>     Anders
>>>>     grumpy old fart with a mission
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Kingsley Idehen
>> Founder & CEO
>> OpenLink Software
>> Company Web:http://www.openlinksw.com <http://www.openlinksw.com/>
>> Personal Weblog:http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen 
>> <http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/%7Ekidehen>
>> Twitter Profile:https://twitter.com/kidehen
>> Google+ Profile:https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
>> LinkedIn Profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen



Kingsley Idehen	
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
Company Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Personal Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen
Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/kidehen
Google+ Profile: https://plus.google.com/+KingsleyIdehen/about
LinkedIn Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/kidehen

Received on Monday, 5 May 2014 12:13:32 UTC

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