Re: Hash vs Hashless URIs

On 12/11/12 9:28 AM, Nathan wrote:
> Melvin Carvalho wrote:
>> On 11 December 2012 14:48, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ 
>> <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org>wrote:
>>
>>> Excerpts from Melvin Carvalho's message of 2012-11-21 15:51:49 +0000:
>>>> On 21 November 2012 15:43, ☮ elf Pavlik ☮ 
>>>> <perpetual-tripper@wwelves.org
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Excerpts from Kingsley Idehen's message of 2012-11-21 14:18:13 +0000:
>>>>>> Please call vote on this matter. I have better things to do with my
>>>>>> time. If a majority want a WebID to be defined a hash based HTTP 
>>>>>> URI,
>>>>>> let's get that in the open right now. We all have decisions to make
>>>>>> about how we spend our time and priorities across our respective
>>>>>> development efforts.
>>>>> $ curl -I http://sebastian.tramp.name
>>>>> HTTP/1.1 303 See Other
>>>>> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 14:33:16 GMT
>>>>> Server: Apache/2.2.14 (Ubuntu)
>>>>> X-Powered-By: PHP/5.3.2-1ubuntu4.18
>>>>> X-Pingback: http://pingback.aksw.org/
>>>>> Location: http://bis.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/SebastianTramp
>>>>> Vary: Accept-Encoding
>>>>> Content-Type: text/html
>>>>>
>>>>> personally i would also like to use WebID without #i or #me or 
>>>>> #self or
>>>>> #elf or #wtf ;)
>>>>>
>>>> elf, can you explain why you would want this ... do you have any 
>>>> specific
>>>> reason, or is it simply a 'vanity' url?
>>> first of all apologies for this super delayed reply!
>>>
>>> to start in very general way, i like when we design technology that 
>>> serves
>>> people and make sure that we don't expect people to stretch their 
>>> comfort
>>> ONLY to fit some technological solution (at the same time i don't mind
>>> encouraging some stretching but motivated with more extensional 
>>> reasons!) i
>>> also realize that we design with certain group of people in mind as 
>>> well -
>>> *developers* - but if someone needs to stretch from technical 
>>> reasons ... ;)
>>>
>>> when i think of a concept of ID, i see most people identifying 
>>> themselves
>>> nowadays with either their email address (including unfortunate 
>>> @twitter
>>> thing) or their homepage / online profile. i see various challenges 
>>> people
>>> from webfinger/simple web discovery face with using email like 
>>> identifiers,
>>> and i agree that we can simplify certain things by sticking to HTTP. 
>>> when
>>> it comes to identifying onself with certain HTTP URL, may people may 
>>> have
>>> their homepage, blog, various online profiles. sometimes people also 
>>> print
>>> them on their personal cards. i've never seen someone using a URL with
>>> #something it for personal homepage or online profile. i understand
>>> distinction between referencing an online profile and entity which this
>>> profile describes, still requiring people to use #whatever feel to 
>>> me like
>>> putting burden on those who *just want to use this damn thing*, and 
>>> very
>>> likely brining confusion to broad audience.
>>>
>>> besides making pools and discussions within this group, mostly with 
>>> people
>>> having strong and at least medium (like myself) understanding of 
>>> underlying
>>> technologies. i would like to look for feedback from people like *my
>>> auntie* or at least *arts student* who can find their way in 
>>> interacting
>>> online but see this whole thing as a magical black box.
>>>
>>> from my perspective sticking to identifiers like 
>>> http://funkyjohny.me or
>>> http://funkyclub.org/johny can make it simplest for people to really
>>> identify oneself with such URL, which to my understanding mean that 
>>> even
>>> using 303 may bring confusion if we type http://funkyjohny.me and 
>>> end up
>>> somewhere let's say on http://funkyjohny.me/profile
>>>
>>> looking at present tendencies in online interaction, besides crafting
>>> technologies with solid technical foundations we MUST also make sure 
>>> that
>>> we make them SEXY!
>>>
>>> once more i see it very impractical to design beautiful *Interaction
>>> Experience* just within circle of geeks and such *front end* related 
>>> issues
>>> i would like to confront with people who consider internet as 
>>> magical thing
>>> :)
>>>
>>> last but not least i would like to say that i find great 
>>> appreciation to
>>> all the work people do in this and other related working groups! and i
>>> would find it a big shame if lack of SEXYness become and obstacle to a
>>> broad adoption of this work...
>>>
>>
>> FWIW I have tried explaining # URIs to people of all ages, male and
>> female.  I start by saying that we have the concept of web pages.  
>> Then I
>> tell them that it is possible to split web pages up into sections 
>> using the
>> # character.  Each section can be about a different topic.  Then each 
>> topic
>> can have properties and attributes in it's own right.
>>
>> I have *never* once failed to explain this to a non technical person in
>> less than 5 minutes.  In fact most people come back to me and say, 
>> that was
>> very easy.
>>
>> It's only the "cool kids" that find this concept very hard to grasp.  
>> That
>> is because it requires unlearning what they have learnt.  It's sad to 
>> say
>> that some web developers will never understand this.  It's not about 
>> lack
>> of knowledge, it's about preconcieved notions.  This is not unique to 
>> the
>> web, it's true in many fields.
>
> I agree, for most developers (including myself) the semantic web and 
> general web architecture involved a big dose of unlearning.
>
> #frag URIs are as complex as looking up a chapter in a book, a scene 
> on a dvd, a level in a game, or a student in a class room.
>
> IMHO, much of the confusion is around using full URIs, but that can 
> easily be masked by simple ux/ui/syntax trickery..  :bob and @bob.
>
>
>
>
Yes, but that would also work fine if the focal point was URIs rather 
than a specific URI scheme. The real problem is that implementation 
details continue to creep into architecture related work.

-- 

Regards,

Kingsley Idehen 
Founder & CEO
OpenLink Software
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