- From: Arthur Barstow <art.barstow@nokia.com>
- Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2011 12:06:52 -0500
- To: "public-webevents@w3.org" <public-webevents@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4D2C8E2C.50705@nokia.com>
The draft minutes from the January 11 voice conference are available at
the following and copied below:
http://www.w3.org/2011/01/11-webevents-minutes.html
WG Members - if you have any comments, corrections, etc., please send
them to the public-webevents mail list before January 18 (the next voice
conference); otherwise these minutes will be considered Approved.
-Art Barstow
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Web Events WG Voice Conference
11 Jan 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JanMar/0001.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/01/11-webevents-irc
Attendees
Present
Art_Barstow, Cathy_Chan, Anders_Höckersten, Sangwhan_Moon,
Doug_Schepers, Matt_Brubeck, Josh_Soref
Regrets
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Tweak the agenda
2. [6]Use Cases and requirements
3. [7]Landscape wiki
4. [8]Specs
5. [9]Mouse Capture
6. [10]AoB
* [11]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB
<scribe> Scribe: Art
Date: 11 January 2011
Tweak the agenda
AH: I work for Opera in Sweden
<mbrubeck> sorry I'm late, dialing in now
AB: agenda posted yesterday (
[12]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JanMar/
0001.html ). Any change requests?
[12]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JanMar/0001.html
DS: I have some additions
<mbrubeck> That's me
DS: there is a proposal from Nokia to talk about
... there is another issue we didn't cover in D3E that we may want
to capture here
... and that is mouse capture
AB: we can include them during the specs topic
Use Cases and requirements
AB: other than the UCs and requirements Cathy sent to the list last
month (
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2010OctDec/
0005.html ), there have been no additional UCs and requirements
inputs. I encourage everyone to submit them.
... Cathy, are the UCs and requirements in your input addressed by
the spec you submitted to the WG yesterday?
[13]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2010OctDec/0005.html
CC: yes, I believe they are
AB: ok; just wanted to clarify
... the requirements are required in later stages of the W3C
recommendation process
Landscape wiki
AB: Doug and I added a couple of additional resources to the
landscape wiki ( [14]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/Landscape
). Everyone should consider that wiki as community property and
edit/update accordingly.
... any other comments on this wiki?
[14] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/Landscape
CC: in the landscape is a link to Ilkka's proposal
... and it is same doc that I submitted to the list yesterday
... as such, the wiki should be updated to just point to the doc I
submitted
<scribe> ACTION: barstow update the landscape doc so that Ilkka's
spec is replaced with Cathy's spec of Jan 10 [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2011/01/11-webevents-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Update the landscape doc so that
Ilkka's spec is replaced with Cathy's spec of Jan 10 [on Arthur
Barstow - due 2011-01-18].
Specs
AB: Doug, what's the status of your initial drafts?
DS: I created some initial drafts
... not quite ready to be checked in
... hope to get something to review by the end of this week
... I may use CVS rather than Mercurial
AB: that is fine with me
<shepazu> mouse capture:
[16]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9557
[16] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9557
AB: Cathy submitted an input to the list yesterday (
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JanMar/
att-0002/TransformActionProposal.html ).
[17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webevents/2011JanMar/att-0002/TransformActionProposal.html
CC: the spec we are proposing addresses the representation level of
user interactions
... physical touch events from UA to web apps is very low level
... our spec introduces higher level action such as zoom, pan
... have a transaction start event
... and then update events that include data like the action e.g.
pan/zoom/etc.
... Allows authors to use high level events
AB: any intial questions or comments for Cathy?
DS: I think this is a good match for the existing transforms for SVG
and CSS
CC: ok
MB: do you have a specific/concrete interaction that would trigger
these events?
... e.g. 3 fingers on a touch screen
CC: that's up to the UA
... e.g. multiple touches, shaking device
... meant to be open to the impl
MB: have you doen any impl work with this?
... want to know how it works with the DOM
CC: we did some impl in Starlight project
... and it uses multi-touch
... my email to the list included a link
SM: scale and rotate are the same events
<mbrubeck> The link [18]http://opensource.nokia.com/Starlight
currently redirects to
[19]http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Nokia_Open_Source
[18] http://opensource.nokia.com/Starlight
[19] http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Nokia_Open_Source
SM: wondering why they weren't separated
DS: I believe the intent is to allow any given gesture to comprise
more than one compent
... could do more than one thing
... if scroll up and to the right, don't know if user is trying two
things or one
<mbrubeck> If you think of using these events to implement a UI like
[20]http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/08/firefox4-beta3/
[20] http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/08/firefox4-beta3/
<mbrubeck> then it makes sense that it would rotate and scale
simultaneously.
<cathy> The link to starlight should be:
[21]http://starlight-webkit.org/Starlight/
[21] http://starlight-webkit.org/Starlight/
MB: the example above does two things at once
DS: yes; this would scale and rotate
... so Matt, do you agree with that aspect of the TransAction spec?
MB: yes, I think this is a reasonable constraint
DS: someone asked if we are going to have literal mapping of 2
fingers on screen and one somewhere else and tie them to specific
gestures
... we need to map between a defined gesture and an action such as
zoom/pan/rotate
... it would be appropriate for us in our non-normative docs to
outline specific gesture such as 3 finger down means something like
zoom/pan/rotate
AB: thanks for clarifying that
Mouse Capture
<Sangwhan_Moon>
[22]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9557
[22] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9557
<shepazu> [23]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9557
[23] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9557
DS: if you grab the scrollbar and move it up/down and then the mouse
strays off the scrollbar
... or if you scroll down on a dropdown list
... We talked about defining this in D3Events
... and then thought Mouse Capture should be defined in this WG
... have been implemented in IE and perhaps Gecko
<mbrubeck>
[24]https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element.setCapture
[24] https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/element.setCapture
<mbrubeck> "Introduced in Gecko 2.0"
<mbrubeck> (i.e. Firefox 4)
DS: Authors will want to do similar things for their own custom UI
elements (widgets)
... the bug report is about setCapture and releaseCapture
... My intent, unless there is an objection, is to define setCapture
and releaseCapture
AB: you would define them in one of the specs you already commited
or a new spec?
DS: not a great fit for either one of them
... could go in either spec
AB: perhaps a new/separate spec
DS: it's more low-level
... so that is probably more appropriate
AB: is there any spec in W3C that defines these?
DS: no, I don't think so
<timeless_mbp> ack me yielding to Sangwhan_Moon
SM: this may have some security implications
<timeless_mbp> Zakim: ack me yielding to Sangwhan_Moon
SM: and may not work with platform widgets
... could have some interop problems
... may need a visual indicator so user doesn't get confused
DS: I think we can deal with this in the security section of the
spec
... agree there is at least one security issue here
... If a widget overlays everything on the screen and events are
sent to a snooping server, there could be a prob
... Think a security note for implementations would address the
problem
<timeless_mbp> I'm concerned about security. But i don't object to
it being added to Low Level
AB: does anyone object to setCapture and releaseCapture being
included in Dougs's low-leve spec?
... adding something does not mean discussion is ended
DS: yes, adding it the spec just starts the conversation
RESOLUTION: group agrees setCapture and releaseCapture events will
be added to the low-level spec
DS: in the charter, says an author can map low level events to high
level intenstional events
... e.g. a double-tap can mean something special in my app
... and override the UA's default behaviour which could be zoom/pan
... We won't define specific gestures
... but could define a way to define gestures
AH: this would lead to device specific pages
DS: that can be done today; can't stop it
AB: so you want to know if this would be useful?
DS: yes, and if so, want to know if there are solutions
<timeless_mbp> so,...
AB: you may want to pose this on the list
<timeless_mbp> i'd like to let an app expose a way to tell users...
DS: don't think we need a decision now but we do need to take a
stand
<timeless_mbp> "I have these actions available" <graphical-list>
<timeless_mbp> "You can select an action"
DS: Don't want to over engineer the problem
<timeless_mbp> "Please gesture to define how to trigger this action"
DS: but I think people will ask for something like this
<timeless_mbp> that would enable the user to train a local gesture
to map to a high level custom event
AB: agree, in the abstract, something like that would be useful
DS: customization would be especially useful for Accessibility use
cases
<timeless_mbp> Accessibility for disadvantaged users and users of
disadvantaged devices :)
ACTION schepers ask the mail list for specific proposals re custom
low-level to high-level event mapping
<trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Ask the mail list for specific
proposals re custom low-level to high-level event mapping [on Doug
Schepers - due 2011-01-18].
AB: +1 to Sangwhan re tricky to implement
DS: agree; perhaps a v2 feature
<timeless_mbp> fwiw, i worry that we might not encourage vendors to
do this, even though i think it'll be rather important for certain
devices (esp legacy)
AB: anything else before AoB
DS: AoB = any other business
AoB
AB: next call?
DS: don't want a call until after I have something published
... schedule a call for next week and we will cancel it if I can't a
spec out to review
<mbrubeck> I added a link to a useful starlight doc/spec page on
[25]http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/Landscape
[25] http://www.w3.org/2010/webevents/wiki/Landscape
DS: who volunteered to Edit?
SM: I did
MB: me too
SM: I prefer Mercurial but with a doc, CVS is fine
<timeless_mbp> (I'm still on record as offering support for Hg)
MB: prefer Mercurial but can live with CVS
<timeless_mbp> technically Hg can help if you have someone (like me)
making random minor cleanup bits
MB: lots more flexible for Mercurial
DS: let me dig into this a bit
<timeless_mbp> shepazu: what OS are you on?
AB: there could be less work with Mercurial because CVS requires
public keys
<timeless_mbp> seriously?
<timeless_mbp> shepazu: [26]http://jasonfharris.com/machg/
[26] http://jasonfharris.com/machg/
AB: ok, tentatively we have a meeting on January 18; will be
canceled if Doug does not get a spec out before then
<mbrubeck> (some of my first programming experience was on BeOS)
AB: meeting adjourned
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: barstow update the landscape doc so that Ilkka's spec
is replaced with Cathy's spec of Jan 10 [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2011/01/11-webevents-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
Received on Tuesday, 11 January 2011 17:07:17 UTC