Re: Minutes [Was: [Agenda] 12 October Automotive Web Payments Task Force call]

Ian, I was encouraged by the lively discussion around the scope. I repeat the key difference between AUTO payments and normal retail payments is the Device Integration. Many associated devices - like the refuelling device, the parking machine, the car wash, the toll barrier, ferry or bridge are usually UNATTENDED. This means the embedded payment application is intrinsically performing device control and product selection. A further complication is the often used product or age restricted products, which means certain products at collection point aren’t available to the consumer. E.g. Petrol on a LPG car. Or Petrol to a person under 18 years old.

I can only make this clear by showing what leading API developers think …. Here, below is a graphically attempt by  Mulesoft<http://www.mulesoft.com> attempt to define "the 15 key API’s they think all retailers need". Note the lack of any Product or Device  Control. Fundamental to the auto business and future retail businesses (in my opinion).
[cid:269C23D6-6084-4997-8288-37C94A4DA2F4]

The auto business is not really that unique in requiring device control and purchase restrictions, I think companies like theatres, Car rental (auto related of course), shows, cinemas, sporting events, anything ticketing related, and any vending machine related retail sales (coffee? Candy? Cigarettes) could easily be controlled and paid for in much the same way as controlling a EV charger. As we always say in IFSF, the device itself isn’t human, it doesn’t know whether it’s a gasoline dispenser, it could be brine or sugared water, cola in the pipes and tank. Everything is by configuration. We know it delivers energy (electricity, petrol, LPG)  because we tell it it does.

David’s point about the requirement for a paper receipt is clearly very relevant. In some jurisdictions (e.g. Germany) it is still a W&M rule that the customer be given a “certified” paper receipt, or at least it be available for him to pick up if he wanted to - and in some countries, like Poland, the so-called legal meterlogical printer even has unique and special character sets that it must print alongside the fuel product. Fortunately these archaic practises are slowly disappearing.

So my point is that although AUTO may be the lead in this business of a very close relationship between Payments and Device Control - I think it is just the start. Imagine in those new Amazon shops - without cashiers - where the payment and product selection, via a vending machine is used without staff. As long as there are staff they provide the device interface - but robots and machine need device control instructions. Modern retailing needs the device control and purchase restrictions APIs that muelsoft (and others) ignore. Somehow we’d have to refuse to sell knives to persons under 21 years old, and alcohol and cigarettes. Extreme examples but just making the point.

I am really sorry I cannot be with you at TPAC. But I hope I can continue to contribute to the telephone sessions. David and I have worked together for several year now and our thinking is reasonable close. I am very comfortable with anything (well most!) he says. Don’t believe him if he says he is teetotal!

Regards,

John

IFSF Projects Manager
Twitter: @IFSF_PM

On 12 Oct 2017, at 15:19, Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org<mailto:ij@w3.org>> wrote:

Hi all,

Minutes from today’s Automotive Web Payments Task Force call:
https://www.w3.org/2017/10/12-autopay-minutes.html


(Later today we will link to slides that Rodrigo presented during the meeting.)

Next meeting: 19 October
https://github.com/w3c/automotive-pay/wiki/Agenda-20171019


Ian


On Oct 11, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org<mailto:ij@w3.org>> wrote:

Dear Web Commerce IG participants,

Here is the agenda for the 12 October Automotive Web Payments Task Force [1] call:
 https://github.com/w3c/automotive-pay/wiki/Agenda-20171012


The call time is 13GMT / 6PST / 9EST / 15CET / 22JST&KST / 14BST

Dial up information:
https://www.w3.org/2017/auto/payments.ics


As a reminder, this task force is organizing a joint discussion between the Web Commerce IG
and the Automotive and Web Platform Business Group at TPAC. That TPAC discussion is
currently scheduled for Thursday, 9 October in the meeting room of the Web Commerce
Interest Group. See the IG’s agenda for more details and the exact time of the joint discussion:
https://www.w3.org/WebCommerce/IG/wiki/Main_Page/FTF_Nov2017


For more information about the task force, see its charter [2].

Thank you,

Ian Jacobs

[1] https://github.com/w3c/automotive-pay/wiki

[2] https://rawgit.com/w3c/automotive-pay/gh-pages/charter.html

--
Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/

Tel: +1 718 260 9447





--
Ian Jacobs <ij@w3.org<mailto:ij@w3.org>>
https://www.w3.org/People/Jacobs/

Tel: +1 718 260 9447