W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-webappsec@w3.org > March 2015

Re: [UPGRADE]: What's left?

From: Mike West <mkwst@google.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2015 20:33:29 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKXHy=fFbURYxX_x6ZEOHW+qfuDTy8AuXy0Q0W_9qYrZNLtzPQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
Cc: Peter Eckersley <pde@eff.org>, "public-webappsec@w3.org" <public-webappsec@w3.org>, Jeff Hodges <Jeff.Hodges@kingsmountain.com>, Tanvi Vyas <tanvi@mozilla.com>, Yves Lafon <ylafon@w3.org>, T Guild <ted@w3.org>, Daniel Appelquist <appelquist@gmail.com>, Alex Russell <slightlyoff@google.com>, Ilya Grigorik <igrigorik@google.com>, Yoav Weiss <yoav@yoav.ws>, Daniel Kahn Gillmor <dkg@fifthhorseman.net>
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 6 March 2015 at 10:43, Mike West <mkwst@google.com> wrote:
> > I don't understand why HSTS needs to be conditionally set. Presumably
> you're
> > only redirecting "safely upgradable requests" to HTTPS if you're this
> spec's
> > target audience.
>
> I understood this as "If you support this upgrade, might as well just
> use HSTS".  But can't save the extra bytes by disabling this signal if
> HSTS is enabled?
>

Yes. I think we're agreeing with each other.

I'm saying:

1. If the UA hits `http://example.com/`, it should send a signal: "Hey, I
support upgrades!". The server should interpret that signal as "Oh, great!
I'll redirect you to `https://example.com/?send-hsts=totally`, which would
respond with appropriate headers.

2. If the UA hits `https://example.com/`, it should not signal that it
supports upgrades. The server should respond with an HSTS header, because
HSTS is lovely.

I think Peter and Daniel (+dkg to join threads) are arguing that #2 is a
bad idea, because the server doesn't know whether the user accidentally hit
the HTTPS page or whether she was redirected there as part of an upgrade.
If that's a real concern for authors, then they have alternatives. For
example, we could add a DOM API. Or, perhaps more elegantly, the author can
tack on a request for `<img src="http://example.com/hsts-canary">` to the
document. If that gets upgraded, HSTSize the connection?

That's a very long way of saying that I think there are ways of doing this
that don't involve sending a header all the time forever. :)

-mike

--
Mike West <mkwst@google.com>, @mikewest

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Received on Friday, 6 March 2015 19:34:18 UTC

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