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Re: "Requirements for Powerful Features" strawman.

From: Mike West <mkwst@google.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:37:23 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKXHy=e5m8mAj0G5EhzQQEBgECeeu2RCSjckwiXHSmGd_befGQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com>
Cc: public-webappsec@w3.org, Brad Hill <hillbrad@fb.com>
What do you think of the direction the draft is taking here? It sounds
similar to what you're asking for:
http://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/

-mike
On Nov 21, 2014 4:26 PM, "Mark Watson" <watsonm@netflix.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:34 AM, Mike West <mkwst@google.com> wrote:
>
> "features which require a verifiably secure environment" is a mouthful,
> and, if anything, it's _less_ precise than "powerful", since it doesn't
> describe anything at all about the feature itself, instead focusing on the
> consequence of whatever properties the feature possesses.
>
> Is there a single adjective other than "powerful" that you'd find less
> judgemental? "risky" has the right connotations, but I suspect you'll like
> it even less than "powerful". :)
>
>
> I guess I would at least like to have a separation between the description
> / definition of the properties of features and the definition of the
> properties of a 'secure environment' or 'authenticated origin' or whatever
> is the appropriate term for that.
>
> I don't think it is easy to find a definition of feature properties which
> maps 1-1 with whatever is defined for a 'secure environment'.
>
> So, I'd have no objection if you write a definition of 'powerful features'
> and a definition of 'secure environment' and then see if it makes sense to
> say things like 'powerful features must be restricted to secure
> environments' and 'non-powerful features must not be restricted to secure
> environments' etc. but we need the definitions of both before we can answer
> those questions and right now the definitions are conflated.
>
> ...Mark
>
>
> -mike
>
> --
> Mike West <mkwst@google.com>
> Google+: https://mkw.st/+, Twitter: @mikewest, Cell: +49 162 10 255 91
>
> Google Germany GmbH, Dienerstrasse 12, 80331 München, Germany
> Registergericht und -nummer: Hamburg, HRB 86891
> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg
> Geschäftsführer: Graham Law, Christine Elizabeth Flores
> (Sorry; I'm legally required to add this exciting detail to emails. Bleh.)
>
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Mark Watson <watsonm@netflix.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:51 AM, Mike West <mkwst@google.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Seems clearly covered by "features which require a verifiably secure
>>> environment".
>>>
>> ​As per my other comment, I think language like this would be a much
>> better ​- more precise, less judgmental - than "powerful".
>>
>> Btw, I'm not sure WebCrypto is good to include as an example, since the
>> WebCrypto WG decided at TPAC not to require an authenticated origin
>> (although the bug is still marked as open).
>>
>> ...Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'd prefer doing it here, but I'm easy. If folks think the TAG should
>>> publish, I'm sure they'll be happy to do so.
>>>
>>> -mike
>>> On Nov 20, 2014 6:39 PM, "Brad Hill" <hillbrad@fb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Do you think that "Powerful Features" belongs as a WebAppSec
>>>> deliverable – and should be added to our draft charter – or as a TAG
>>>> finding?
>>>>
>>>>   From: Mike West <mkwst@google.com>
>>>> Date: Thursday, November 20, 2014 at 5:21 AM
>>>> To: "public-webappsec@w3.org" <public-webappsec@w3.org>
>>>> Subject: "Requirements for Powerful Features" strawman.
>>>> Resent-From: <public-webappsec@w3.org>
>>>> Resent-Date: Thursday, November 20, 2014 at 5:22 AM
>>>>
>>>>   After talking a bit more with Anne and others, I'm coming around to
>>>> the opinion that we should break the "powerful features" bit out of MIX. In
>>>> particular, the notion that we need to explain what constitutes a "powerful
>>>> feature" pushes this right out of MIX in my mind; it was always tangential,
>>>> and if we need to define the category (and I agree that we do), then MIX
>>>> isn't the right place for it.
>>>>
>>>>  I've slapped together a strawman at
>>>> https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://w3c.github.io/webappsec/specs/powerfulfeatures/&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=HU3cThGizwgsko8%2BWBMXZg%3D%3D%0A&m=Uny70yXyxUKM6QderEO9EitGs%2Fm7TkCqYt%2BJnGFSFSo%3D%0A&s=0fcecb0074cfb96997dfb36ca84714e3b5a266f1480943ceb8cb7d410eec3d39>
>>>> with lots of TODO text. If folks agree that a separate document is
>>>> worthwhile, I'll remove the copy/pasted bits from MIX, clean up the
>>>> strawman, and issue a CfC to publish a FPWD.
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>  --
>>>> Mike West <mkwst@google.com>
>>>> Google+: https://mkw.st/+
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=https://mkw.st/%2B&k=ZVNjlDMF0FElm4dQtryO4A%3D%3D%0A&r=HU3cThGizwgsko8%2BWBMXZg%3D%3D%0A&m=Uny70yXyxUKM6QderEO9EitGs%2Fm7TkCqYt%2BJnGFSFSo%3D%0A&s=1dab00db52d0d48e6baf746f4ff9a01f6e3eced390c7139ced53ecba90e1c5f2>, Twitter:
>>>> @mikewest, Cell: +49 162 10 255 91
>>>>
>>>>  Google Germany GmbH, Dienerstrasse 12, 80331 München, Germany
>>>> Registergericht und -nummer: Hamburg, HRB 86891
>>>> Sitz der Gesellschaft: Hamburg
>>>> Geschäftsführer: Graham Law, Christine Elizabeth Flores
>>>> (Sorry; I'm legally required to add this exciting detail to emails.
>>>> Bleh.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
Received on Friday, 21 November 2014 15:37:52 UTC

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