- From: Marcos Caceres <marcosscaceres@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2014 12:15:39 -0400
- To: "public-web-mobile@w3.org" <public-web-mobile@w3.org>
Raw minutes are available online:
http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-webmob-minutes.html
Text version:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Web and Mobile Interest Group Teleconference
26 Mar 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-webmob-irc
Attendees
Present
dka, schuki, +1.650.946.aaaa, McCarron, Art_Barstow,
+1.416.848.aabb, +44.207.356.aacc, +1.405.364.aadd, dom,
ernesto, Bin_Hu, +47.66.71.aaee, [IPcaller], tobie__,
+1.908.559.aaff
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
Marcos
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Payments
2. [5]Installable webapps
3. [6]Manifest
4. [7]Identity
5. [8]Offline
6. [9]permissions
7. [10]network info
8. [11]AOB
* [12]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<dka> yo
<dom> trackbot, prepare meeting
<trackbot> Date: 26 March 2014
<ernesto> Zakim: ??P9 is me
<ernesto> zakim mute me
<scribe> Scribe: Marcos
<scribe> Scribenick: marcosc
<schuki>
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014M
ar/0019.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Mar/0019.html
schuki: lots of things have been happening over the last month
... we have a lot to cover - including new agenda items sent to
the list
Payments
<schuki> [14]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases
[14] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases
schuki: just going to share our repo ^^^
... there was a payments workshop this week in Paris. It tried
to tackle the various issues around payment on the Web. It had
large participation from Operators, browser vendors, and
banking sector folks
... I ran through some of the things that were relevant to our
group while there
<schuki> [15]http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/agenda.html
[15] http://www.w3.org/2013/10/payments/agenda.html
schuki: payment workshop agenda ^^^
... lots of different topics were covered. We talked mostly
about the issues with payments online - on the session I
moderated, we talked about the user experience and the
challenges there with privacy, security, experience, etc.
... identity and security were things that kept coming up
... identity has been a big focus at various orgs outside the
w3c... I see it becoming a big thing at the w3c
... mobile user experience with regards to payments came up a
lot
... it was not as discussed as much as I expected
dka: there are issues, for instance, like when you are making a
payment there is no UA chrome to indicate to the user that they
are making a secure payment. There was also issues around
typing in passwords and long credit card numbers... no
consensus that we should be addressing this at the w3c
schuki: yes, so there was questions about how comprehensible
these interfaces are, etc.
<ernesto> typing, sorry, wrong place
<Zakim> ernesto, you wanted to comment on "Trusted UI"
<ernesto> I was going to comment that Trusted UI was raised
about knowing where you are
<Zakim> tobie__, you wanted to mention about creating UX docs
similar to what Marcos has been doing for app case studies
<ernesto> but it's also going to be about having shared session
across different apps with different cookie jars
<ernesto> whihc
<ernesto> which mozPay solved too
tobie__: talking about UX, the type of work that Marcos did
with netinfo might also be good to do with Web payments. Some
non-normative guidelines would be very helpful there.
<ernesto> +1 tobie__'s comment that we need a doc about current
status and landscape
<ernesto> and requirements
<schuki> marcosc: i agree
<schuki> .. we need to deal with this as well
<schuki> ... but it does get quite complicated, and i would
like to tackle this whole thing,
<schuki> ... we're trying to deal with this in the manifest
spec
<ernesto> in my opinion, we should try to look how to enable
seamless UX in platforms with shared cookie jars and per-app
cookie jars
<schuki> marcosc: to tobies point, we did send an email tp
payments list
<schuki> ... currently we have a doc
<schuki> ... but they're all missing the user exp
<ernesto> also, this is not only payments related. OAuth flows
needs this too
<schuki> ... doc is good, does reveal the interesting things,
but doesn't get to core of the matter
<schuki> ... cryptocurrencies is a good point too
schuki: I agree with tobie__'s suggestion
<schuki> marcosc: it's good to keep the use cases broad
schuki: at the top of the use cases document you can now see an
amalgamation of the use cases. I've also marked the relevant to
mobile.
<schuki> ... desktop etc
schuki: we have a good relationship with that web payments
group. We should continue working with them on this
bshambaugh: had a question about what a primitive is when
talking about user interfaces?
<Zakim> tobie__, you wanted to discuss main takeaways
schuki: we should keep the standardization aspects very simple.
Robin suggested that keeping things simple through using web
intents - like just a "pay" intent. Moving further from that,
when talking about "wallet" - it got complicated about what
defines a wallet... it was the feeling that this should be an
implementation detail rather than something to be standardized
tobie__: these were my takeaways. On the one side, there are a
bunch of items that came up over the two days - some
primitives: intent to pay and a data model to describe
receipts. Work on these primitives could start now amongst
different working groups.
<dka> Some stuff from my wrap-up notes relevant to webmob:
Intents-to-pay, NFC APis, use of push API in auth scenarios,
web crypto, webapps work on request auto-complete, geofencing
use cases, secure element API in sysapps…
tobie__: second point, there needs to be a longer term plan ...
it would be great if we had a group dedicated payments
<tobie__> +1 on Wallet being the wrong abstraction.
dka: it's a wrong assumption that we need a "wallet"
abstraction to do payments - as we can already do payments on
the web.
<ernesto> +100
schuki: let's follow on with tobie__'s idea
<dka> “Buying Starbucks™ coffee with my Starbucks™ App…”
schuki: does anyone have anything to add?
<dka> (in Paris)
dom: do we have a clear set of next steps
<dka> +1 to documenting some user experiences
schuki: the next step is to coordinate with Manu
<schuki>
[16]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases/issues/13
[16] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases/issues/13
<dka> For the minutes: my point about wallets is that - whilst
(ahem) a wallet may indeed be a useful abstraction for some
payment scenarios, it’s not necessary for all scenarios. An
example of a scenario in which is not not useful would be use
of a payment mechanism within a specific application
environment, e.g. a loyalty-card-based-app like the Starbucks™
app example or e.g. within the Apple store app (using an app to
buy goods in-store).
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014M
ar/0004.html
[17] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Mar/0004.html
The email above has the questions
Installable webapps
<schuki> marcosc: i put together the document
<schuki> ... looks at usage from apple
<schuki> ... apple web app capable apps
<dka> Natasha you can give me an action to contribute to that
document on payment scenarios as well.
<schuki> ... and whether these things are useful
<schuki> ... and they weren't
<schuki> marcosc: next steps is to publish as a note
Manifest
<schuki> marcosc: still trying to get implementers interested
<schuki> ... next week meeting in san jose
<schuki> ... i'll present this there
<schuki> ... see if more interest there
<schuki> ... moz pushing
<schuki> dka: i would like to talk about it in extensible web
summit
<schuki> [18]http://lanyrd.com/2014/extensible-web-summit/
[18] http://lanyrd.com/2014/extensible-web-summit/
<schuki> marcosc: its allowing apps to be installed
<schuki> ... radical shift from before
<dka> (registration for that is open and we still have space
available by the way - 4/4 in San Francisco, hosted by Adobe)
<schuki> ... it's an evolutionary approach
<schuki> dka: when does it become real?
<tobie__> +1 to bridging the gap between web apps and
installable web apps
<schuki> marcosc: we're limiting to the basic stuff, not
pushing it too much
<schuki> ... hopefully it will become a reality soon
<schuki> dka: discussion with samsung guys, sounded like they
may put into their android browser
<schuki> dka: samsung said they will be interested if it's W3C
<schuki> ... good to discuss with them
<dom> +1 to publish research as IG NOTE
[19]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/installable-webapps/tree/gh-p
ages/ios_standalone
[19] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/installable-webapps/tree/gh-pages/ios_standalone
<schuki> dka: is iOS really that dire?
<schuki> marcosc: yes!
"Despite these 1097 sites claiming they can be used as
standalone, what we found was that the majority of web apps
(90%, or 324 out of 360) can not be used as standalone. Only a
tiny fraction (10%, or 36 out of 360) are able to run as
standalone - and 28% of those had significant limitations
(described below). There is, in fact, a greater percentage
(12%) of desktop sites masquerading as installable web apps
than there are actual standalone app
lications. "
<schuki> dka: might want to be careful on negativity in a note
<schuki> marcosc: apple and firefox know these things are
broken, so we need to know how to fix things on the browser
side
<schuki> ... devs want to do this but browser vendors isn't
catering to them
<schuki> ... manifest should do this
<schuki> ... so we need to push on this
<Zakim> dka, you wanted to ask about ios installable webapps
<dka> +1 to publishing it as an IG note
[20]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/installable-webapps/tree/gh-p
ages/ios_standalone#recommendations-to-implementersw3c
[20] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/installable-webapps/tree/gh-pages/ios_standalone#recommendations-to-implementersw3c
<schuki> marcosc: we have a recommendations section
<schuki> tobie__: how about focusing on the most successful
apps
<schuki> ... and whether this gave different results
<schuki> marcosc: this is what we did
<schuki> ... the top 20k
top 78000K
[21]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/installable-webapps/tree/gh-p
ages/ios_standalone#methods-and-limitations
[21] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/installable-webapps/tree/gh-pages/ios_standalone#methods-and-limitations
<schuki> marcosc: methodology outlined ^
<schuki> tobie__: this is sound
<schuki> ... if what we want to look at top 100k apps
<schuki> ... but not a good sample of what users use
<schuki> marcosc: maybe could add to limitations
<schuki> tobie__: +1 to work, it's awesome
Identity
<schuki> [22]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/identity
[22] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/identity
schuki: repo ^^^
... it was raised on the list as something we should look at
... in the payments identity came up a lot, so I'm keen to get
this going again
... however, I'm already working on two items so I can't lead
it.
... I know there are people from AT&T and Telenor interested in
this area.
<schuki> [23]https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebID
[23] https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebID
schuki: some of you might already be aware of the WebID work.
... the feedback that I'm hearing is that it's great as an
academic piece, but needs more work to be applicable to a wider
web context
... I'm interested to hear if people have any comments about
identity and how we should progress
<dom> Manu blogged recently on this FWIW
[24]http://manu.sporny.org/2014/credential-based-login/
[24] http://manu.sporny.org/2014/credential-based-login/
shane: I've been talking to people about this topic. I know
there is a long history covering this space. I think we should
start the work on this group.
schuki: I would like to be involved or someone from the GSMA
should be involved. We are very interested in this area at the
GSMA - lots of folks looking at identity there. We could have
some good inputs.
... but I'll let Shane coordinate with Manu about how we can
proceed.
<schuki>
[25]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/identity/wiki/Use-Case-List
[25] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/identity/wiki/Use-Case-List
schuki: is people can think about identity or have something to
add to the discussion, please use the wiki ^^^
<schuki> [26]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/offline
[26] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/offline
Offline
<schuki> [27]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker
[27] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker
<schuki>
[28]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/tree/master/exa
mples
[28] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/tree/master/examples
schuki: this is the correct repo - we've forked it from the
official one
... we are interested in doing the examples
... they are being standardized as part of the WebApps WG.
MC: they haven't actually done that yet :)
schuki: by doing the examples, we can help verify the spec
... we are waiting from browser vendors to put something out
MC: Mozilla is also trying to get something out
... we should have something out at the same time as Chrome
permissions
schuki: anything happening in that space?
dom: not particularly. The TAG was supposed to look at this
too.
dka: we have not done much of yet at the TAG yet
... I'm going to add it to the agenda to the TAG F2F
schuki: it came up also at EdgeConf
... if a member organization wants to help lead it, it would be
great
<dka> thanks though!
network info
<schuki> marcosc: ready to publish, sent request to chairs list
<schuki> ... hopefully get out on 27th
<schuki> dom: please send email to phillip
AOB
schuki: no other comments
<schuki> great call this month :D
meeting adjourned
<schuki> coffee & lunch!!!!
<schuki> um.....
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [29]scribe.perl version
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$Date: 2014-03-26 16:07:39 $
__________________________________________________________
[29] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Found Scribe: Marcos
Found ScribeNick: marcosc
Default Present: dka, schuki, +1.650.946.aaaa, McCarron, Art_Barstow, +1
.416.848.aabb, +44.207.356.aacc, +1.405.364.aadd, dom, ernesto, Bin_Hu,
+47.66.71.aaee, [IPcaller], tobie__, +1.908.559.aaff
Present: dka schuki +1.650.946.aaaa McCarron Art_Barstow +1.416.848.aabb
+44.207.356.aacc +1.405.364.aadd dom ernesto Bin_Hu +47.66.71.aaee [IPc
aller] tobie__ +1.908.559.aaff
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Found Date: 26 Mar 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [32]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-webmob-minutes.ht
ml
People with action items:
[32] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/26-webmob-minutes.html
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Received on Wednesday, 26 March 2014 16:16:14 UTC