- From: Marcos Caceres <w3c@marcosc.com>
- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 11:38:25 -0400
- To: "public-web-mobile@w3.org" <public-web-mobile@w3.org>
View online at:http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webmob-minutes.html
====
- DRAFT -
Web and Mobile Interest Group Teleconference
16 Apr 2014
[2]Agenda
[2] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/Meetings#Teleconference_Dates_.26_Times
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webmob-irc
Attendees
Present
schuki, marcosc, dom, +33.6.80.59.aabb, Mohammed_D,
larsgk?, +1.405.708.aacc, bshambaugh, kawada_, larsgk,
[IPcaller], tobie__, Bryan_Sullivan
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
marcos
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Welcome
2. [6]Offline
3. [7]device orientation
4. [8]Installable Web Apps
5. [9]Coord with Cordova
6. [10]Payments
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 16 April 2014
<schuki> scribe: marcos
<schuki> scribenick: marcosc
<schuki> oh talk going on about tests in #webtv
<schuki> lol marcosc i should have asked if you're still ok to
scribe?
<schuki> hi bshambaugh!
<larsgk> marcosc: thanks - was away from the computer. This is
the first time I join here - how does the irc vs voice work? -
transcripts in both or just here for pasting code and such?
larsgk: sorry, was in meeting
... we just write the minutes + make fun of each other in IRC
:)
<larsgk> marcosc: ok - then you can make fun of me if I don't
manage to get the SIP working :D
<larsgk> I can hear you but nobody hears me I guess
<larsgk> ?
<schuki> :/
<larsgk> sorry
<larsgk> I can hear you
larsgk, np... we will get you sorted
<larsgk> ubuntu 13.10 - trying a different client..
Welcome
<schuki>
[12]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/Meetings#Teleconference_Date
s_.26_Times
[12] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/Meetings#Teleconference_Dates_.26_Times
agenda^^^
<scribe> Agenda:
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014A
pr/0009.html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Apr/0009.html
<schuki>
[14]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/tree/master/exa
mples
[14] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/tree/master/examples
Offline
<bshambaugh> Hello WebMob
<bshambaugh> yes
schuki: the WebApps WG is currently working on this.
<larsgk> went mute
schuki: I've made a fork of the service worker repo. I've been
gathering, use cases from various folks. In the Gh repo, you
will see the use cases, etc. As a group, we should work on
these use cases or put them into an application.
<schuki>
[15]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/tree/master/exa
mples
[15] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/tree/master/examples
schuki: we currently don't have any real implementations that
we can work from - from the browser vendors. Chrome and FireFox
are hoping to support this soon. But even though there is no
implementation, we can start working it regardless. Anyone can
start working on this.
... please just pick a GH issue
<schuki> marcosc: i think there may be too many things
<schuki> ... maybe we should gather them into a list
<larsgk> short bio: Lars Knudsen, have worked with mobile web
tech since 2001 in larger companies, in Nokia N9/WebKit2/MeeGo
team until mid 2012, experience with browser and webkit src, qa
of APIs and browser, "evangelist for the common avg joe web
developer"
[16]https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/tree/master/ex
amples
[16] https://github.com/slightlyoff/ServiceWorker/tree/master/examples
<schuki>
[17]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/issues/37
[17] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/issues/37
<schuki> marcosc: merge some, make apps which show more use
cases
<schuki> ... better if we have fewer things, so we don't over
promise
[18]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/issues
[18] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/ServiceWorker/issues
<schuki> marcosc: if we gather into a separate dir, with
targets to hit, hit three per app, this would be more
achievable
tobie: I just a contract with Mozilla to help them with their
service workers imp
... so all of this should converge
... the other thing that is interesting, there is an
implementation that use Node
schuki: it will be great to have Tobie working on SWs so he can
keep us up to date
... I have had some interest from some people to work on this
... I will add those people to the wiki
device orientation
<schuki> marcosc: larsgk is also trying to work on this
<tobie__> node.js serviceworker polyfill
[19]https://github.com/phuu/serviceworker-polyfill/
[19] https://github.com/phuu/serviceworker-polyfill/
<schuki> marcosc: our group is well suited to making a
contribution to this discussion
<schuki> ... bringing in all problems like in net info
<schuki> ... larsgk can you give an overview?
<dom> (probably relevant,
[20]https://github.com/w3c/deviceorientation/issues/4 )
[20] https://github.com/w3c/deviceorientation/issues/4
<schuki> larsgk: i worked in nokia on the n9 browser
<schuki> larsgk: we thought about how there aren't many web
game devs
<tobie__> +1 to orientation lock being an issue for game dev.
<schuki> ... the device orientation is an issue here
<schuki> larsgk: symbian was portrait devices, some others were
landscape
<schuki> ... this meant games mapped differently per device
<schuki> marcosc: cool!
larsgk: I've been working with web tech for many years. I used
to work with Nokia on one of their browsers as a developer
evangelist - bridging between browser devs and web devs. What
we saw inside Nokia is that different teams has implemented the
x, y, z, differently (MC: also happened on Android). The
current specs seem to confuse implementers. It's pretty
important that when we do these specs we are more clear. We
need to have a holistic vi
ew of the APIs with regards to accelerometer data, etc.
to keep things simple, the w3c should decide what is the
default for all devices for orientation (i.e., what is "up").
larsgk: we need to have a holistic view that makes orientation
consistent across the platform
<Zakim> dom, you wanted to comment on renewed work on device
orientation in renewed geo wg
dom: I agree that developing a holistic view. Just in terms of
FYI, the geolocation WG, which is responsible for device
orientation, is being restarted. Richt and other in that group
have also started to look into this. In any case, it would be
extremely useful to define this. We need a volunteer to work on
this.
<larsgk> I will do my best to provide examples and input
larsgk: it would be fine - but we really need this to enable
gaming on the Web. I'm willing to put in a lot of hours into
this. I can work with kenneth also on this to provide even more
inputs.
<larsgk> larsgk@gmail.com
<larsgk> larsgk
<larsgk> :)
<larsgk> on github
<dom> [we should also lists all the specs we know are affected
by device orientation]
<scribe> ACTION: Marcos to set up GH for orientation work
[recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webmob-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - Set up gh for orientation work
[on Marcos Caceres - due 2014-04-23].
marcosc: I'll add kenneth and the rest of the orientation
people
<larsgk> dom: a mini dependency graph around "anything
orientation" might actually be good (something that
could/should be done in general on web standards related to one
another)
<dom> +1
<dom> yes, orientation links to portrait/landscape which links
to window dimensions
tobie__: I don't have much to add... except that it is great to
look at this in detail. The whole portrait/lanscape thing takes
a whole different color on desktop browsers...
<larsgk> thoughts ^ ?
tobie__: ... on desktop the semantics are different from mobile
... the second point, we need to align with the CSS people.
... device orientation, orientation locking, and CSS ... it
would be extemely useful for this group to describe what
areas/groups are touched by this
dom: yes, I agree.
<larsgk> marcosc: on desktop we don't need lock.. but if say
"laptop" with tablet features... then it should work exactly
the same as mobile.. actually. ?
tobie__: we also need consider watches and non-square user
interfaces ... as the currently language that we are using in
these specs is problematic
larsgk: I agree.
<larsgk> consider "degrees" .. e.g. "0 deg", 90 180, etc.
<larsgk> where 0 deg ~ portrait up ~ (x,y,z)=(0,1,0)
Installable Web Apps
<schuki> marcosc: some news
<schuki> ... microsoft said they are interested, i am hoping to
patch up the doc and send it to them
<schuki> ... they feel some of their use cases are not
addressed
<schuki> ... mainly related to needs of their store
<schuki> ... they want to use it for their packaged apps too
<schuki> marcosc: Google also gave some positive signals
<schuki> ... orientation is one of the things holding up the
draft
Coord with Cordova
dom: a few weeks ago I spoke with the cordova/phonegap folks
[22]http://phonegap.com/
[22] http://phonegap.com/
[23]https://cordova.apache.org/
[23] https://cordova.apache.org/
<dom>
[24]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014F
eb/0051.html [25]http://markmail.org/thread/yd3fnaixzw2aln7e
[24] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-mobile/2014Feb/0051.html
[25] http://markmail.org/thread/yd3fnaixzw2aln7e
dom: lets you build packaged apps to target a range of
platforms... they provide APIs for device access. Currently the
W3C and Cordova APIs don't align
... I'm hoping to work with Cordova to align the APIs ... and
to get more feedback from the Cordova community back to the W3C
<larsgk> in my experience: cordova is pretty slow compared to
crosswalk - if possible to package crosswalk without the JIT/V8
it would be great (or port/contribute to cordova to make it
faster)?
dom: tonight, I'm going to join a hangout with with the Cordova
... will report back
<larsgk> (without the V8 for iOS)
schuki: is there any particular APIs that they are looking at
in particular?
<dom> [26]http://markmail.org/thread/yd3fnaixzw2aln7e links to
the issues that highlight the divergence between our APIs and
theirs
[26] http://markmail.org/thread/yd3fnaixzw2aln7e
dom: they have about 14 or 15 APIs, but most don't align
tobie__: my understanding is that they are not packaging a
runtime?
larsgk: iOS doesn't allow it
tobie__: I was wondering if they are doing something different
on other platforms?
dom: I think they might let you pick a webview on Android
tobie: the second point I want to make: when they don't provide
the runtime, it is very hard for them to implement particular
APIs. This might make it difficult to implement particular
features (e.g., ones that depend on parsing HTML)
tobie__: another problem is that bridge and native system has
to be asynchronous.
larsgk: I think this might be an WebKit 2 related issue....
tobie__: the bridge can only be set up asynch and some APIs can
only be used after "deviceready" event fires. This makes for
some strange APIs. This makes things very hard to test
sometimes.
<larsgk> sync/async: we will probably not get away from that in
the future anyway (async = better UI speed, etc. often) - but
wasn't e.g. the orientation lock async (at least the spqc at
some point) - e.g. "ask for lock, function(result({...})"
dom: I looked a bit at testing as a motivation for this work.
The other big problem is that the APIs don't even bother try to
be WebIDL.
marcos: the spec is very hard to read. Lots of people have
complained about it being inaccessible
dom: anyway, there is probably not much we can do about that in
the short.
... term
<bshambaugh> Hey guys, catch you later. Another call at
freenode #payswarm
marcos: we are also trying to do something similar at Mozilla.
<schuki> [27]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases
[27] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases
Payments
schuki: we are done with the payment usecases, as we have
handed them over the the Payment CG
... a report has been produced from the Payments CG
<schuki>
[28]https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases/issues?sta
te=open
[28] https://github.com/w3c-webmob/payments-use-cases/issues?state=open
<schuki> thank-you!!!
<schuki> thanks for scribing marcosc
<schuki> :D
np
dom: yep
just setting up the repo for orientation first
<larsgk> all: sorry for the queue interruptions - I didn't know
protocol - thanks for letting me contribute though :)
tobie__: can I add you to team orientation?
<tobie__> sure
larsgk: np! thanks again for joining
<larsgk> thanks for having me :) ttyl
dom, sorry... I can't remember how ot (or don't have sufficient
privileges) to make the minutes public?
I told "RRSAgent, set logs public"
but still getting "insufficient privileges"
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Marcos to set up GH for orientation work
[recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webmob-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [30]scribe.perl version
1.138 ([31]CVS log)
$Date: 2014-04-16 15:35:38 $
__________________________________________________________
[30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[31] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Found Scribe: marcos
Found ScribeNick: marcosc
Default Present: schuki, marcosc, dom, +33.6.80.59.aabb, Mohammed_D, lar
sgk?, +1.405.708.aacc, bshambaugh, kawada_, larsgk, [IPcaller], tobie__,
Bryan_Sullivan
Present: schuki marcosc dom +33.6.80.59.aabb Mohammed_D larsgk? +1.405.7
08.aacc bshambaugh kawada_ larsgk [IPcaller] tobie__ Bryan_Sullivan
Agenda: [33]https://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/Meetings#Teleconference_Dates
_.26_Times
[33] https://www.w3.org/wiki/Mobile/Meetings#Teleconference_Dates_.26_Times
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 16 Apr 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [34]http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webmob-minutes.ht
ml
People with action items: marcos
[34] http://www.w3.org/2014/04/16-webmob-minutes.html
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
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[35] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
--
Marcos Caceres
Received on Wednesday, 16 April 2014 15:38:54 UTC