Re: [tt] minutes - 21 May 2013

On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 1:31 AM, Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org> wrote:
> available at:
>  http://www.w3.org/2013/05/21-webtv-minutes.html
>
> also as text below.
>
> Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, Mark Vickers!
>
> Please note that I've added the action item from this call
> to Tracker as ACTION-114 at:
>  https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/actions/114
>
> Kazuyuki
>
> ---
>    [1]W3C
>
>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>
>                                - DRAFT -
>
>                 Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
>
> 21 May 2013
>
>    [2]Agenda
>
>       [2]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2013May/0020.html
>
>    See also: [3]IRC log
>
>       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/05/21-webtv-irc
>
> Attendees
>
>    Present
>           Kaz, Pierre, Glenn, Jean-Charles, Mark_Vickers, Olivier
>
>    Regrets
>    Chair
>           Pierre
>
>    Scribe
>           Mark
>
> Contents
>
>      * [4]Topics
>          1. [5]Revised TTWG charter
>          2. [6]Meeting time
>      * [7]Summary of Action Items
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>    <Mark_Vickers> pierre: Agenda: 1. meeting time. 2. TTWG Charter
>    3. Testing project
>
> Revised TTWG charter
>
>    <olivier>
>    [8]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2013AprJun
>    /0136.html
>
>       [8]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-forum/2013AprJun/0136.html
>
>    <pal_> [9]http://www.w3.org/2013/05/timed-text-charter.html
>
>       [9] http://www.w3.org/2013/05/timed-text-charter.html
>
>    <inserted> scribenick: Mark_Vickers
>
>    Pierre: The main addition to the charter is WebVTT
>    ... There seems to be support in the TTWG, but some opposition
>    on AC list discussion. Can the Web & TV industry provide some
>    direction.
>
>    Olivier: One thing that could be useful is to point to adoption
>    of both specs. Both specs have wide adoption. AC statements
>    that TTML is irrelevant & noxious are concerning.
>
>    Pierre: TTML has had great adoption. It is the responsibility
>    of W3C to harmonize the two.
>
>    Glenn: Harmonize implies merging into one. I expect both will
>    exist. I think it will be good for both to be in one group.
>    There has been much misinformation on TTML, for example on XSL.
>    Having both in one group will decrease partisanship.
>    ... Cox has asked for specific language in the charter asking
>    for a level playing field and support of both.
>
>    <inserted> scribenick: olivier
>
>    Mark_Vickers: we've had too much of a focus on tech issues, not
>    enough IMHO on doing what's best for people with hearing
>    impairments
>
>    <glenn>
>    [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013May/0082.
>    html
>
>      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013May/0082.html
>
>    Mark_Vickers: more important than this vs that architecture
>
>    <glenn>
>    [11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013May/0087.
>    html
>
>      [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013May/0087.html
>
>    Mark_Vickers: in that regard fewer specs would be better than
>    more
>    ... would be good to see all TTML variants pulled into one
>    ... and make sure we can maximally map the semantics between
>    the two, if there are to be more than one spec
>    ... if there can't be a mapping, we would lose information
>
>    <kaz> scribenick: Mark_Vickers
>
>    glenn: Do you think it's realistic that one community will give
>    up one sntax?
>
>    olivier: I don't think that it's realistic for there to be one
>    spec given current usage.
>
>    mark_vickers: I agree it's unlikely to be one spec, but I think
>    it's worth stating that it's an ideal.
>
>    glenn: I don't agree with a single spec notion because I think
>    it's impractical and causes more trouble.
>    ... I agree it's important to serve the community for captions,
>    both hearing and hearing-impaired.
>
>    Pierre: What about the goal of maximizing semantic
>    compatibility?
>
>    glenn: To some degree. The goals of TTML were broader, for
>    example in the use of SMIL. I wouldn't expect WebVTT to adopt
>    that.

Right. You're still able to put SMIL and whatever else into WebVTT
cues, but they won't be interpreted by a browser natively.


>    Pierre: But to the amount that one is a semantic superset of
>    the other>
>
>    mark_vickers: what about when semantics cannot be mapped?
>
>    glenn: browsers need to support both formats
>    ... The superset format can be mapped, but some information
>    will be lost.
>
>    <pal_> [12]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts
>
>      [12] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts
>
>    pierre: Would it be worth sharing the TF list of adoption of
>    TTML & WebVTT to show adoption of both?
>    ... Can we come up with a requirement that all are happy?
>
>    glenn: it would be useful to identify the caption communities
>
>    olivier: the audio group has a hierarchy of developer,
>    implementor, spec maker. In the case of timed text: user,
>    author, implementor, spec maker
>
>    glenn: I'd order user, author first, but whether implementor or
>    spec maker is first is unclear
>
>    olivier: an example is if something is tedious to specify, but
>    important for implementors, you need to do the spec
>
>    glenn: I see the order as user, {author, implementor, spec
>    maker} with the latter an unoredered list
>
>    pierre: I think author is a priority over the latter two
>
>    glenn: How about user, author, {`implementor, spec maker}?
>
>    <olivier> "ensure maximal interop"?
>
>    pierre: Some progress on community. How do we get to agreement
>    on the points on mapping?
>
>    olivier: I like maximize semantic mapping
>    ... what really worries me is that if the two evolve together,
>    there will be mapping from one to the other, but if there's not
>    a clear decision of which is a superset, we're in trouble
>
>    glenn: I like "Ensure maximal semantic interop"
>    ... right now I beliebe WebVTT is a subset of TTML, as far as
>    I'm aware.

My understanding is the exact opposite: since TTML only focuses on
captions, but WebVTT on captions, descriptions, metadata, and
chapters, WebVTT has a broader applicability than TTML.


>    ... for example TTML ability to specifiy feature priority

Can you explain what "feature priority" means?


>    ... if WebVTT is kept as a subset of TTML, that would maximize
>    interop

They are likely orthogonal in some features, which cannot be mapped to
each other, but can map for others.


Thanks,
Silvia.


>    pierre: that is beyond the ability of this group,
>
>    <pal_> pal's notes:
>
>    <pal_> - need to provide better information
>
>    <pal_> - minimize profiles
>
>    <pal_> - user, author, {implementer, spec maker}
>
>    <pal_> - ensure maximal semantic interop (one format might be a
>    superset of the other)
>
>    glenn: Perhaps just state one could be superset of another
>
> Meeting time
>
>    pierre: 8AM Los Angeles time on Thursdays
>    ... What about 30th for next call?
>
>    everybody nods
>
>    <scribe> ACTION: Pierre to draft position statement and post to
>    email [recorded in
>    [13]http://www.w3.org/2013/05/21-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
>
>    <trackbot> Error finding 'Pierre'. You can review and register
>    nicknames at <[14]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.
>
>      [14] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users%3E.
>
>    Kaz's note: I've just created the following action item
>    manually. [15]https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/actions/114
>
>      [15] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/actions/114
>
>    <glenn> trackbot, end meeting
>
> Summary of Action Items
>
>    [NEW] ACTION: Pierre to draft position statement and post to
>    email [recorded in
>    [16]http://www.w3.org/2013/05/21-webtv-minutes.html#action01]
>
>    [End of minutes]
>      __________________________________________________________
>
>
>     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [17]scribe.perl version
>     1.138 ([18]CVS log)
>     $Date: 2013-05-21 14:23:43 $
>
>      [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>      [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>
>
> --
> Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI and Voice
> Tel: +81 466 49 1170
>

Received on Wednesday, 22 May 2013 06:48:37 UTC