[tt] minutes - 21 May 2013

available at:

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, Mark Vickers!

Please note that I've added the action item from this call
to Tracker as ACTION-114 at:



       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                 Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference

21 May 2013



    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2013/05/21-webtv-irc


           Kaz, Pierre, Glenn, Jean-Charles, Mark_Vickers, Olivier




      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Revised TTWG charter
          2. [6]Meeting time
      * [7]Summary of Action Items

    <Mark_Vickers> pierre: Agenda: 1. meeting time. 2. TTWG Charter
    3. Testing project

Revised TTWG charter



    <pal_> [9]http://www.w3.org/2013/05/timed-text-charter.html

       [9] http://www.w3.org/2013/05/timed-text-charter.html

    <inserted> scribenick: Mark_Vickers

    Pierre: The main addition to the charter is WebVTT
    ... There seems to be support in the TTWG, but some opposition
    on AC list discussion. Can the Web & TV industry provide some

    Olivier: One thing that could be useful is to point to adoption
    of both specs. Both specs have wide adoption. AC statements
    that TTML is irrelevant & noxious are concerning.

    Pierre: TTML has had great adoption. It is the responsibility
    of W3C to harmonize the two.

    Glenn: Harmonize implies merging into one. I expect both will
    exist. I think it will be good for both to be in one group.
    There has been much misinformation on TTML, for example on XSL.
    Having both in one group will decrease partisanship.
    ... Cox has asked for specific language in the charter asking
    for a level playing field and support of both.

    <inserted> scribenick: olivier

    Mark_Vickers: we've had too much of a focus on tech issues, not
    enough IMHO on doing what's best for people with hearing


      [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013May/0082.html

    Mark_Vickers: more important than this vs that architecture


      [11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013May/0087.html

    Mark_Vickers: in that regard fewer specs would be better than
    ... would be good to see all TTML variants pulled into one
    ... and make sure we can maximally map the semantics between
    the two, if there are to be more than one spec
    ... if there can't be a mapping, we would lose information

    <kaz> scribenick: Mark_Vickers

    glenn: Do you think it's realistic that one community will give
    up one sntax?

    olivier: I don't think that it's realistic for there to be one
    spec given current usage.

    mark_vickers: I agree it's unlikely to be one spec, but I think
    it's worth stating that it's an ideal.

    glenn: I don't agree with a single spec notion because I think
    it's impractical and causes more trouble.
    ... I agree it's important to serve the community for captions,
    both hearing and hearing-impaired.

    Pierre: What about the goal of maximizing semantic

    glenn: To some degree. The goals of TTML were broader, for
    example in the use of SMIL. I wouldn't expect WebVTT to adopt

    Pierre: But to the amount that one is a semantic superset of
    the other>

    mark_vickers: what about when semantics cannot be mapped?

    glenn: browsers need to support both formats
    ... The superset format can be mapped, but some information
    will be lost.

    <pal_> [12]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts

      [12] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Timed_Text_Efforts

    pierre: Would it be worth sharing the TF list of adoption of
    TTML & WebVTT to show adoption of both?
    ... Can we come up with a requirement that all are happy?

    glenn: it would be useful to identify the caption communities

    olivier: the audio group has a hierarchy of developer,
    implementor, spec maker. In the case of timed text: user,
    author, implementor, spec maker

    glenn: I'd order user, author first, but whether implementor or
    spec maker is first is unclear

    olivier: an example is if something is tedious to specify, but
    important for implementors, you need to do the spec

    glenn: I see the order as user, {author, implementor, spec
    maker} with the latter an unoredered list

    pierre: I think author is a priority over the latter two

    glenn: How about user, author, {`implementor, spec maker}?

    <olivier> "ensure maximal interop"?

    pierre: Some progress on community. How do we get to agreement
    on the points on mapping?

    olivier: I like maximize semantic mapping
    ... what really worries me is that if the two evolve together,
    there will be mapping from one to the other, but if there's not
    a clear decision of which is a superset, we're in trouble

    glenn: I like "Ensure maximal semantic interop"
    ... right now I beliebe WebVTT is a subset of TTML, as far as
    I'm aware.
    ... for example TTML ability to specifiy feature priority
    ... if WebVTT is kept as a subset of TTML, that would maximize

    pierre: that is beyond the ability of this group,

    <pal_> pal's notes:

    <pal_> - need to provide better information

    <pal_> - minimize profiles

    <pal_> - user, author, {implementer, spec maker}

    <pal_> - ensure maximal semantic interop (one format might be a
    superset of the other)

    glenn: Perhaps just state one could be superset of another

Meeting time

    pierre: 8AM Los Angeles time on Thursdays
    ... What about 30th for next call?

    everybody nods

    <scribe> ACTION: Pierre to draft position statement and post to
    email [recorded in

    <trackbot> Error finding 'Pierre'. You can review and register
    nicknames at <[14]http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.

      [14] http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users%3E.

    Kaz's note: I've just created the following action item
    manually. [15]https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/actions/114

      [15] https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/actions/114

    <glenn> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

    [NEW] ACTION: Pierre to draft position statement and post to
    email [recorded in

    [End of minutes]

     Minutes formatted by David Booth's [17]scribe.perl version
     1.138 ([18]CVS log)
     $Date: 2013-05-21 14:23:43 $

      [17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
      [18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Kaz Ashimura, W3C Staff Contact for Web&TV, MMI and Voice
Tel: +81 466 49 1170

Received on Tuesday, 21 May 2013 15:31:50 UTC