[profile] minutes - 12 March 2012

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Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, Clarke!

The next call will be held on Monday, April 2.

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       [1] http://www.w3.org/

                                - DRAFT -

                        TV Profile Teleconference

12 Mar 2012



    See also: [3]IRC log

       [3] http://www.w3.org/2012/03/12-webtv-irc


           Kazuyuki, giuseppe, Clarke, glenn, Juhani,
           Jan_Lindquist, Yosuke, David_Corvoysier, Dewa




      * [4]Topics
          1. [5]Liaison with OIPF
          2. [6]Profiling criteria
          3. [7]CSS specs we may want to reference
          4. [8]use case functionality
          5. [9]next call
      * [10]Summary of Action Items

Liaison with OIPF

    Opent IPTV Forum

    giuseppe: open networks and managed network deployments
    ... how to properly reference mostly WIP sources
    ... How have other organizations addressed this problem
    ... They are asking us for advice
    ... a) reference specific version with date
    ... Means regular review and update. This is a bit messy
    ... b) reference current draft without a date
    ... need to define a way of working to minimize changes
    ... c) only reference proposed recommendation
    ... d) delay any work until specs are at proposed
    recommendations level

    <kaz> [11]liaison letter (member-only)


    giuseppe: e) reference latest version and decide which version
    to use later
    ... f) define some profile that can be referenced directly and
    keep track of change
    ... g) automatically use latest version available at time of
    ... h) any other option?
    ... Looking at 2D transforms, 3D transforms, HTML5 canvas, CSS
    ... Good to get feedback firsthand in this group
    ... want to also get this out to other groups (e.g. process
    ... floor open for comments
    ... Kaz mentioned this problem with other specs.

    <kaz> [12]EPUB 3

      [12] http://idpf.org/epub/30/spec/epub30-overview.html#references

    Kaz: There is a similar case in EPUB 3
    ... They used undated URL
    ... This is a working draft specification
    ... They need to change their URL if this changes

    <kaz> [13]Geolocation spec

      [13] http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source.html#geolocation_interface

    Kaz: Geolocation is another examples
    ... Even though HTML5 spec is not stable, they will add note
    within spec
    ... The HTML5 spec will let them know when features are stable
    ... Geolocation also refers to WEB IDL
    ... They need to change the reference to WEB IDL - which has
    changed a bit
    ... Each section might change

    giuseppe: one option is to use the section name rather than

    kaz: it requires HTML5 or CSS3 editors to use name rather than
    number references

    giuseppe: glen on queue

    <giuseppe> ack

    glen: a couple comments
    ... the official language on status of these documents
    specifies inappropriate to refer to these other than as WIP
    ... need to put WIP somewhere in reference
    ... in the case of EPUB, the URLs are generic TR+shortname
    reference that would not be required to change
    ... would not anticipate process committee changing this
    ... before doc is in CR stage it is questionable whether it
    should be referenced at all
    ... unlikely to get consensus on what "stable" means.
    ... I would expect significant changes to HTML before PR status

    giuseppe: People have different opinions, but useful to collect
    examples of how others are handling the problem
    ... we can collect a few of the best options.
    ... could probably reduce the scope to a few possiblities

    glenn: I would also follow up
    ... in a recent interview with Jaffe
    ... changes to accelerate the standards process
    ... they should be looking at this problem and formulating
    ... we should pass any input we collect on to them



    giuseppe: it's going through us because the liaison was
    established through us

    glenn: I'm working with one standards group that decided to
    indirectly reference them through html5 specification
    ... This in turn has references to other specs
    ... this reduced the number of open ended references

    giuseppe: Will be an issue solved for basic DOM and some other
    ... any other opinions?

    jan: Really appreciate the insight that drafts should be
    consistently referenced
    ... That will help external bodies do references

    <glenn> link on Jeff Jaffe discussing accelerating process et


    giuseppe: We can run this through w3c management again before
    responding to OIPF
    ... I will draft first letter to them

    kaz: thanks for the proposal
    ... suggest we include PLH and Ralph


    giuseppe: people can reply on the list if they agree with my
    ... next point

Profiling criteria

    giuseppe: only thing we have agreed on is the name
    ... I created the online document

    <kaz> [15]Giuseppe's proposal


    giuseppe: it was interesting to get feedback on what should be
    included in Profiling docuemnt
    ... how do we address specs with overlapping topics
    ... Should we include profiles for different conditions
    ... Any feedback on any of these points?

    glenn: if we try to consider individual features, we will never
    reach closure

    giuseppe: probably one way forward is to have some
    consideration inside specs on whether they are stable
    (especially important if various features are stable and not

    glenn: try to create a fuzzy document that is more generic in
    areas of technology defined by W3C
    ... should divide the idea of a profile into generic (abstract)
    and concrete
    ... concrete may specify individual features
    ... abstract can specify more general featues
    ... may be useful to try to get consensus on an abstract

    giuseppe: I suggested "meta" profile. Maybe that is the same

    <glenn> if we can't reach a consensus on an abstract profile,
    we'll never conclude on a concrete profile

    giuseppe: any other opinions on this?
    ... for the reference itself, I used a TR version (current
    approach). Other options include editor draft

    jan: if we have abstract list of requirements, how do we deal
    with that over time?
    ... is this a continuously updating reference?

    glenn: I think thats TBD
    ... if we define an abstract profile then we could make
    reference to abstract pages.
    ... w3.org/TR/CSS has "CSS Snapshot 2010" which references CSS
    levels 1 through 3 and other items
    ... premature to make conclusion on that yet.

    jan: maybe can let it progress
    ... then see what is needed. freeze when group decides it is

    giuseppe: 1st step is to try to delimit which technology to use
    ... feature testing and performance testing are two important
    ... 1) determine if parts are missing
    ... 2) test performance
    ... This is just getting started in W3C. What are best

    giuseppe: could be in scope for profile work
    ... another area that is covered is what to do about areas
    where HTML5 is providing technology, but relying on external
    ... should we undertake this topic (e.g. reference to metadata
    defined elsewhere)
    ... trying to understand what we want to put in this profile

    corvoysier: ... anything specific?

    giuseppe: in-band tracks is an example
    ... details of what is in-band depends on several factors
    defined elsewhere
    ... same information can be exposed differently depending on
    geographic location or transport method
    ... i don't have a concrete proposal yet
    ... people need to be aware of the functionality
    ... there are different levels we can reach. We should talk to
    these other organizations.

    corvoysier: will need liaisons

    giuseppe: I'm talking about work that may not be done yet
    ... I will provide more examples later online
    ... looking at the agenda again...

    glenn: do we have a conclusion on what to call a profile

    resolution: title will be Web Media Profile

    giuseppe will post on wiki

    <giuseppe> sibtitles: Guidelines for integration of interactive
    media services in a browser-based environment

    <kaz> [16]draft document

      [16] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/tip/tvprofile/tv.html

CSS specs we may want to reference

    <kaz> [17]draft document

      [17] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/tip/tvprofile/tv.html

    glenn: which list are you referring to?


      [18] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webtv/raw-file/tip/tvprofile/tv.html#css

    giuseppe: now just section headings and link.

    glenn: I would not agree to including this particular list
    ... in notes it should say that the contents of this section
    and which specifications are mandatory is under discussion and
    ... I'm not sure this is the final list to be supported
    ... just to prevent misunderstanding

    giuesppe: I will put in a note
    ... want to make sure it is relevant for that industry area

    glenn: CSS properties only lists CSS 2.0 and not 2.1, Box model
    not being actively developed, etc.

    giuseppe: I am working on an update as well
    ... to kaz, do we have an update for bugzilla account?

    kaz: Looks like it has now been created, I will pass on

    glenn: CSS3 referring to high-end typesetting features that may
    not be relevant. View mode? most everything needs a lot of
    review and discussion.

    giuseppe: we have to pinpoint which specs we're interested in

    glenn: do we need any references to SMIL?

    giuseppe: put links in to provoke reaction so people can react
    on why they think is relevant

    glenn: should support HTML5 and syntax, CSS, DOM4, - that sort
    of high-level abstraction that may not require mapping to
    specific spec.
    ... raises question: why do it unless it is useful
    ... need to choose balance points to make useful

    giuseppe: 1st step at specification level
    ... need to know what to implement and support
    ... I'm open to input and will try to go through this
    ... participate in list to make your comments known

    kaz: another topic
    ... got comment on how to handle OIPF reference
    ... has letter from OIPF
    ... They know of this reference problem and can discuss on
    mailing list

    <inserted> kaz: so I'll forward the liaison letter to the
    liaison ML, and ask W3C Team mates for opinions

use case functionality

    giuseppe: use the wiki or mailing list to provide your input
    ... suggestion to do survey of use cases and consider coverage
    of recent web specs
    ... we can do this and use our web space

next call

    giuseppe: will continue with monthly call (first monday in
    ... there is call info on wiki
    ... I will send reminder
    ... any other business?
    ... closing call... see you next month

    [ adjourned ]

Summary of Action Items

    [End of minutes]

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     $Date: 2012/03/12 16:40:31 $

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Received on Monday, 12 March 2012 16:41:32 UTC