- From: Andi Snow-Weaver <andisnow@us.ibm.com>
- Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 20:32:03 -0500
- To: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
- Cc: "Crowell, Pierce" <Pierce.Crowell@ssa.gov>, "'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <OF4DFE124C.12309C22-ON86257A37.00085CD0-86257A37.00086DC3@us.ibm.com>
I think this is close enough to the wording we approved that we can just
decide tomorrow to send it up to WCAG for another try.
Andi
From: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
To: "Crowell, Pierce" <Pierce.Crowell@ssa.gov>
Cc: "'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>
Date: 07/09/2012 05:52 PM
Subject: Re: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent for
1.3.1 Info and Relationships
I'm good with this. In fact I think it is an improvement - thanks Pierce.
I think that this is straightforward enough that it could be handled just a
part of tomorrows meeting since it has gone to the list and everyone has
had a chance to read it.
We can put to survey though too if people feel warranted and it won't
jeopardize getting it to WCAG this week (ooooo which it would if we wait
til Friday) hmmmm
Up to the chairs to call it.
But nice job Andi then Pierce.
Gregg
--------------------------------------------------------
Gregg Vanderheiden Ph.D.
Director Trace R&D Center
Professor Industrial & Systems Engineering
and Biomedical Engineering
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Co-Director, Raising the Floor - International
and the Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure Project
http://Raisingthefloor.org --- http://GPII.net
On Jul 9, 2012, at 11:27 PM, Crowell, Pierce wrote:
While that helps, it is the placement that is the issue. I can live
with it, but I made one slight edit for reading relief (removed
“ITEMS THAT SHARE A COMMON CHARACTERISTIC ARE ORGANIZED INTO A” and
changed a couple other words).
Should we post this to the survey or just discuss at tomorrow’s
meeting (Note: I may not be able to attend)?
Pierce
Sighted users perceive structure AND RELATIONSHIPS through various
visual cues — headings are often in a larger, bold font separated
from paragraphs by blank lines; list items are preceded by a bullet
and perhaps indented; paragraphs are separated by a blank line; form
fields may be positioned as groups that share text labels; a
different background color may be used to indicate that several items
are related to each other; words that have special status are
indicated by changing the font family and /or bolding, italicizing,
or underlining them; TABLES ORGANIZE ITEMS WITH ROWS AND COLUMNS
WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF CELLS SHARING THE SAME ROW OR COLUMN AND
THE RELATIONSHIP OF EACH CELL TO ITS ROW AND/OR COLUMN HEADER ARE
NECESSARY FOR COMPREHENSION; and so on. Having these structures and
relationships programmatically determined or available in text
ensures that information important for comprehension will be
perceivable by all.
From: Andi Snow-Weaver [mailto:andisnow@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 4:40 PM
To: Crowell, Pierce
Cc: 'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'
Subject: RE: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent
for 1.3.1 Info and Relationships
Pierce,
We don't have to accept this. We can try again.
How about this?
Sighted users perceive structure AND RELATIONSHIPS through various
visual cues — headings are often in a larger, bold font separated
from paragraphs by blank lines; list items are preceded by a bullet
and perhaps indented; paragraphs are separated by a blank line; form
fields may be positioned as groups that share text labels; a
different background color may be used to indicate that several items
are related to each other; words that have special status are
indicated by changing the font family and /or bolding, italicizing,
or underlining them; ITEMS THAT SHARE A COMMON CHARACTERISTIC ARE
ORGANIZED INTO A TABLE WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF CELLS SHARING THE
SAME ROW OR COLUMN AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF EACH CELL TO ITS ROW
AND/OR COLUMN HEADER ARE NECESSARY FOR UNDERSTANDING; and so on.
Having this structure and these relationships programmatically
determined or available in text ensures that information important
for comprehension will be perceivable by all.
Andi
<image001.gi
f>
<image002.gi Andi Snow-Weaver
f> Accessibility Standards
Program Manager
Human Ability & Accessibility
Center
Tel: +1-720-663-2789
Email: andisnow@us.ibm.com
<image001.gi
f>
<image003.gif>"Crowell, Pierce" ---07/09/2012 03:20:54 PM---If they
were repetitive, then they selected the lesser of the two. The
result is now we lost the on
From: "Crowell, Pierce" <Pierce.Crowell@ssa.gov>
To: "'public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org'" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>
Date: 07/09/2012 03:20 PM
Subject: RE: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent
for 1.3.1 Info and Relationships
If they were repetitive, then they selected the lesser of the two.
The result is now we lost the only mention of the word “table” in all
of the INTENT sections. At least we still have his cousin “tabular.”
I’m easy on closing AI-23 if we are willing to add “row, column, and
header” to the examples in 4.1.2. I really wanted it in 1.3.1, but
if there is no clarity there, and I see no added clarity in this
outcome, then a reference in the examples list is desired.
Pierce
From: Andi Snow-Weaver [mailto:andisnow@us.ibm.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 3:25 PM
To: public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org
Subject: ACTION-23 - WCAG response to request to modify intent for
1.3.1 Info and Relationships
Last week the WCAG working group reviewed our request to modify the
intent for 1.3.1 as follows:
Replace the current last paragraph which reads:
There may also be cases where it may be a judgment call about
what information should appear in text and what would need to
be directly associated. However, wherever possible it is
necessary for the information to be programmatically determined
rather than providing a text description before encountering
the table.
With the following paragraphs ( a new one plus the paragraph
above slightly edited)
Structure and relationships are often visually perceivable. For
instance, when information is presented in tabular form the
visual structure and relationship of one cell to another, the
structure and relationship of one cell to all the cells sharing
the same row or column, and the relationship of one cell to the
row and/or column header are necessary for understanding
information in a table. Having this structure and these
relationships programmatically determined or available in text
ensures that information important for comprehension will be
perceivable to all.
There may also be cases where it may be a judgment call as to
whether the relationships should be programmatically determined
or be presented in text. However, when technologies support
programmatic relationships, it is strongly encouraged that
information and relationships be programmatically determined
rather than described in text.
Per the survey results and the group discussion, the working group
feels that the first paragraph is repetitive of what is already in
the second paragraph. Instead of adding our first proposed paragraph,
they agreed to this resolution:
RESOLUTION: 2nd paragraph gets replaced with “Sighted users
perceive structure through various visual cues — headings are
often in a larger, bold font separated from paragraphs by blank
lines; list items are preceded by a bullet and perhaps
indented; paragraphs are separated by a blank line; items that
share a common characteristic are organized into tabular rows
and columns with their headers; form fields may be positioned
as groups that share text labels; a different background color
may be used to indicate that several items are related to each
other; words that have special status are indicated by changing
the font family and /or bolding, italicizing, or underlining
them and so on. HAVING THIS STRUCTURE AND THESE RELATIONSHIPS
PROGRAMMATICALLY DETERMINED OR AVAILABLE IN TEXT ENSURES THAT
INFORMATION IMPORTANT FOR COMPREHENSION WILL BE PERCEIVABLE TO
ALL.
With regard to the second paragraph of our proposal, they agreed to
this resolution:
RESOLUTION: replace the seventh paragraph with "There may also
be cases where it may be a judgment call as to whether the
relationships should be programmatically determined or be
presented in text. However, when technologies support
programmatic relationships, it is strongly encouraged that
information and relationships be programmatically determined
rather than described in text.
If there are no objections, with these WCAG resolutions, we can close
ACTION-23 tomorrow.
Andi
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Received on Tuesday, 10 July 2012 01:32:44 UTC