RE: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3

OK how about we go with 

3.2 L2 SC3.  Components that have the same functionality in multiple
delivery units within a set of delivery units are labeled consistently.
(Guide to 3.2 L2 SC3)

And postpone the LABEL discussion to the full guidelnes review so we are
consistent in what we use.

Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 

-----Original Message-----
From: public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 3:43 PM
To: 'Gregg Vanderheiden'; 'Ben Caldwell'; 'Li, Alex'
Cc: public-wcag-teama@w3.org
Subject: RE: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3


 
OK 
Here goes

Combined form is...




Gregg

 -- ------------------------------ 
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center 
University of Wisconsin-Madison 


-----Original Message-----
From: public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Gregg Vanderheiden
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:16 AM
To: 'Ben Caldwell'; 'Li, Alex'
Cc: public-wcag-teama@w3.org
Subject: RE: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3


Here are the two in question

3.2 L2 SC3.  Components that have the  same functionality in multiple
delivery units within a set of delivery units are labeled consistently.
(Guide to 3.2 L2 SC3) 


3.2 L3 SC1. Non-text content that appears on multiple delivery units and has
the same function has consistent text alternatives. (Guide to 3.2 L3 SC1)


I think the question is "what are components?" 

If they are only 'active' things then the two are different.   If any gif or
jpg is a component and all non-text content is considered a component then
L2SC3 covers L3SC1.   But if a gif or movie is NOT a component - then we
need both.   I think we could define component and delete L3SC1.  


What do others think?   What is included in component?  What would the
definition be?   (where else do we use component?) 
 
Gregg

 -- ------------------------------
Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D. 
Professor - Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
Director - Trace R & D Center
University of Wisconsin-Madison 


-----Original Message-----
From: public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Ben Caldwell
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 3:40 PM
To: Li, Alex
Cc: public-wcag-teama@w3.org
Subject: Re: FW: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3


I think option A is the way to go. Can't see a reason to require that
non-text always have the same text alternative.

Alex's traffic light example is a good one and so is the one about
previous/next icons. To me, as long as the function is conveyed in the
alternative, there's nothing wrong with providing additional details.

(ex. a next page icon appears on multiple pages within a collection and
includes alt="Next - page 2" alt="Next - page 3" etc.)

This isn't something I think we should be prohibiting at level 3, so I would
suggest combining whatever relevant portions of the L3 SC1 guide doc with
what we've got for L2 SC3.

-Ben

Li, Alex wrote:
> Forgot to send to all.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> *From:* Li, Alex
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2005 11:46 AM
> *To:* 'Gregg Vanderheiden'
> *Subject:* RE: combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3
> 
> Hi all,
>  
> I went back to the original text of the SC to examine the difference.  
> According to the June 30th draft, L3 SC1 says "Graphical components 
> that appear on multiple pages, including graphical links 
> <http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-WCAG20-20050630/#linkdef>, are 
> associated with the same text equivalents wherever they appear.".  The 
> biggest difference between the proposed SC and the June SC is that we 
> changed from "same" to "consistent".
>  
> That leaves us with two options:
>  
> Option A-varify that there is no way to fail L3 SC1 if L2 SC3 is 
> fulfilled and delete L3 SC1.  I don't think it is possible to fail L3
> SC1 if L2 SC3 is met, given that the SC are written in its current forms.
>  
> Option B-change L3 SC1 to "Non-text content that appears on multiple 
> delivery units and has the same function
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#samefunctiond
ef> 
> has the same text alternatives."  This option implies that we demand 
> the "same" text alternative or equivalent in level 3, given that we 
> know that the sc won't be applicable in some fairly common situations 
> where icons are used.
>  
> I don't see any appropriate technique to help web designers meet the 
> L3
> sc1 in option B in those situations where icons are used for multiple 
> purposes for good reasons (traffic lights and document download icons).
> Assuming no technique is found, then we are still back to where we 
> were--no real difference between the two SC.  I would argue that there 
> is no reason to selection option B because L2 SC3 guide doc contains a 
> common failure that says labelling "search" and "find" for the same 
> function and icon would fail L2 SC3.  Assuming that we keep the common 
> failure in place, I think the only logical decision is to remove L3 SC1.
>  
> All best,
> Alex
>  
> 
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org
>     [mailto:public-wcag-teama-request@w3.org]
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2005 7:51 AM
>     *To:* public-wcag-teama@w3.org
>     *Subject:* combining 3.2 L3 SC1 and L2 SC3
> 
>     1.) David, Alex, and I  have an action item to look a SC1 with 3.2
>     L2 SC3.   (Last week, we couldn't come up with any techniques for
>     the L3 item that wouldn't already be covered by the L2 SC.)
> 
>      
> 
>     Everyone - can you think of anything that would be covered by L3
>     SC1  that isn't covered by L2 SC3  (that isn't made up or trivial)??
> 
>     I'll post a separate email that you can respond to on this.  Then
>     Alex, David and I will finish this up.
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
>     For your info - here is Level 2 and Level 3 of 3.2
> 
>      
> 
>     Please send your thoughts
> 
>      
> 
>      
> 
> 
>           *Level 2 Success Criteria for Guideline 3.2 *
> 
>        1. Changing the setting of any input field does not automatically
>           cause a change of context
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#context-chang
edef>.
>           (Guide to 3.2 L2 SC1
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L2_SC1>)
> 
>        2. Components that are repeated on multiple delivery units
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#deliveryunitd
ef>
>           within a set of delivery units occur in the same relative
>           order
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#relorderdef>
>           each time they are repeated. (Guide to 3.2 L2 SC2
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L2_SC2>)
> 
>        3. Components that have the same functionality
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#samefunctiona
litydef>
>           in multiple delivery units
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#deliveryunitd
ef>
>           within a set of delivery units are labeled consistently.
>           (Guide to 3.2 L2 SC3
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L2_SC3>)
> 
> 
>     [edit
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2&action=edit&s
ection=4>]
> 
> 
>           *Level 3 Success Criteria for Guideline 3.2 *
> 
>        1. Non-text content that appears on multiple delivery units and
>           has the same function
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guideline_3.2#samefunctiond
ef>
>           has consistent text alternatives. (Guide to 3.2 L3 SC1
>
<http://trace.wisc.edu/wcag_wiki/index.php?title=Guide_to_3.2_L3_SC1>)
> 
> 
>      
> 
> 
>     Gregg
> 
>     ------------------------
> 
>     Gregg C Vanderheiden Ph.D.
>     Professor - Depts of Ind. Engr. & BioMed Engr.
>     Director - Trace R & D Center
>     University of Wisconsin-Madison
>     _<http://trace.wisc.edu/>_ FAX 608/262-8848 
>     For a list of our list discussions http://trace.wisc.edu/lists/
> 
>       <http://trace.wisc.edu:8080/mailman/listinfo/>
> 
>      
> 
>      
>

Received on Thursday, 27 October 2005 17:08:10 UTC