- From: Detlev Fischer <detlev.fischer@testkreis.de>
- Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2013 23:02:24 +0200
- To: Peter Korn <peter.korn@oracle.com>
- Cc: "Elledge, Michael (M.S.)" <melledg2@ford.com>, "public-wai-evaltf@w3.org" <public-wai-evaltf@w3.org>
I can confirm that experience: no (or hardly any) fully conforming sites in our evaluation history. The only sites we ever tested to conform fully were quite small, fine-tuned after corrections, not the typical complex sites you find in client work, more like accessibility showcases. That's why I think it is useful to avoid 'conformance' and call the WCAG-EM outcome "accessibility evaluation statement" (or similar). It's also useful to clearly spell out the difference between the WCAG page-based conformance concept and what WCAG-EM does and can assert based on the sample, as suggested by Peter. FInally: people who made an effort to create accessible content should be able to be proud of good evaluation results even if they miss (as usual) 100% compliance in the sample. They won't likely take up a menacing and impossibly demanding "100% or you have failed" methodology. And uptake we want to see WCAG-EM make a difference. But I am repeating myself... On 12 Sep 2013, at 22:14, Peter Korn wrote: > Mike, > > But... if we none of us are finding fully conforming websites (which are only getting larger and more complex, particularly with web applications), then our emphasis should be on how to report the reality around us, not the theoretical perfection we don't see. > > > Peter > > On 9/12/2013 12:51 PM, Elledge, Michael (M.S.) wrote: >> Hi Peter— >> >> I completely agree. I have yet to find a fully conforming website in my evaluations, except for one I made back in WCAG 1.0 days. :^) >> >> I was thinking, though, that providing several sample statements could help illustrate what we meant by conformance and non-conformance. >> >> Mike >> >> From: Peter Korn [mailto:peter.korn@oracle.com] >> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:35 PM >> To: Elledge, Michael (M.S.) >> Cc: public-wai-evaltf@w3.org >> Subject: Re: Change title of Conformance in the context of WCAG-EM >> >> Mike, >> >> We may well, occasionally, find that all of the pages in a sampling conform. Much more likely, folks using WCAG-EM may find that at most a subset of the sampled pages conform. But I expect the vast majority of the time, folks applying WCAG-EM will find problems (however small) in most of the sampled pages. >> >> Does anyone in this TF have experience to the contrary in the considerable experience we collectively have evaluating websites? >> >> So I believe the emphasis of any examples should be in how to report the most common realities out there. And not the theoretical perfection we are all still yearning to find actually exists in the wild. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Peter >> >> On 9/12/2013 6:54 AM, Elledge, Michael (M.S.) wrote: >> Hi all— >> >> I wonder if this issue can be addressed by the wording of a conformance claim. Just as people will be looking to us for the method for evaluating webpages/websites according to WCAG 2.0, they will also look for the appropriate wording to use. We may want to consider referencing Section 5.b and providing clear statements they can use, such as: >> >> WCAG 2.0 Level AA Conformance: All pages >> WCAG 2.0 Level AA Conformance: Sample—15 of 150 pages >> >> Mike >> >> Mike Elledge >> Usability Specialist >> Creative Design and Usability (CDU) >> Ford Motor Company >> 313-390-4853 >> >> >> -- >> <Mail Attachment.gif> >> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal >> Phone: +1 650 5069522 >> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065 >> <Mail Attachment.gif>Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment >> > > -- > <oracle_sig_logo.gif> > Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal > Phone: +1 650 5069522 > 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065 > <green-for-email-sig_0.gif> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment -- Detlev Fischer testkreis - das Accessibility-Team von feld.wald.wiese c/o feld.wald.wiese Thedestraße 2 22767 Hamburg Tel +49 (0)40 439 10 68-3 Mobil +49 (0)1577 170 73 84 Fax +49 (0)40 439 10 68-5 http://www.testkreis.de Beratung, Tests und Schulungen für barrierefreie Websites
Received on Thursday, 12 September 2013 20:52:13 UTC