Re: difference between techniques and procedures

Hi Mike,

Yes, it has been a lengthy thread with different points raised.

As to your comment, I don't think it is a good idea to coin new terms. 
WCAG already differentiates between "Techniques" and "General Failures".

I think we are trying to fix the wrong problem...

Best,
   Shadi


On 12.6.2012 21:30, Michael S Elledge wrote:
> Hi All--
>
> This has been a long and exhaustive (exhausting?) thread. I think
> referring to our evaluations as "procedures" and developer methods as
> "techniques" will help to reduce confusion. I also agree that it is
> important to remember that ultimately our role as evaluators is to
> determine whether a client has met the success criteria established by
> the W3C in WCAG 2.0. While it may add value to point a client to a
> better technique than he/she is using, especially if their technique has
> failed, it is not necessary to accomplishing our goal as evaluator.
>
> Mike
>
> On 6/8/2012 8:19 PM, Vivienne CONWAY wrote:
>> Hi Richard and all
>> I've been following the discussion, but sadly was too snowed under
>> (and that's really hard in Australia!) until this morning to respond.
>>
>> I think Richard that you capture my thoughts very concisely. In
>> reality what methods the designer uses to meet the guidelines isn't
>> really the issue for us as evaluators. We need to look at what methods
>> he's used to see if he's found something different that works, but
>> mostly we are checking to see that whatever techniques he uses meets
>> the guidelines. As you said, if there are images, they must have
>> meaningful alternatives and conform with the guidelines for 1.1.1 .I
>> think we should, cite the failures - particularly if the designer has
>> clearly used a documented failure technique in the design.
>>
>> In our reporting, we obviously can talk about what different
>> techniques the designer used to meet the guidelines and what we did to
>> test those features. But we do need to document carefully the
>> procedures we used for testing. In my reporting, I also describe why
>> certain things the designer has done are not compliant, and provide
>> suggestions for things he could do that would remedy this.
>>
>> I think in the end if we reference our EM, that will cover a lot of
>> the 'how' we tested part. I also think I'd like to see more work done
>> on the Failure Techniques. I think that would help a lot of designers
>> - in my mind that is who these are primarily written for. They help us
>> in that we can point the designer to the Failure Technique so they can
>> see the documentation of why a certain technique is not acceptable.
>>
>> Hope that all makes sense?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Vivienne L. Conway, B.IT(Hons), MACS CT, AALIA(cs)
>> PhD Candidate& Sessional Lecturer, Edith Cowan University, Perth, W.A.
>> Director, Web Key IT Pty Ltd.
>> v.conway@ecu.edu.au
>> v.conway@webkeyit.com
>> Mob: 0415 383 673
>>
>> This email is confidential and intended only for the use of the
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>> ________________________________________
>> From: RichardWarren [richard.warren@userite.com]
>> Sent: Friday, 8 June 2012 9:18 PM
>> To: Shadi Abou-Zahra
>> Cc: Eval TF
>> Subject: Re: difference between techniques and procedures
>>
>> Dear Shadi and Eval Team,
>>
>> I am concerned that we are making things overly complex.
>>
>> Our task is to develop a procedure for checking compliance with the
>> Guidelines.
>>
>> We are not validating the method/s used by the designer to meet the
>> guidelines. - Yes it makes our job easier if the designer has used
>> specified
>> techniques etc. But the final test is "are there text alternatives for
>> non-text content?", "Does it work properly when using a keyboard?", "Can
>> users avoid and correct mistakes?" etc...
>>
>> Now if I use the 'procedures' as listed by W3C to check for compliance
>> with
>> each guideline I can tell the designer that I have done so and that
>> his/her
>> site either complies with the guidelines, or does not. My report will
>> tell
>> the designer which guidelines are complied with and which not. Any third
>> party can check my results using the same procedures.
>>
>> That is all I need to do in my role as an evaluator. (Step 4 of section 3
>> Evaluation Procedure)
>>
>> In my role as a consultant I clearly need to do a lot more by identifying
>> why and where it is non-compliant and how the designer should address the
>> problems etc..
>>
>> I therefore still believe that steps 1.e and 4b should relate to the
>> procedures used by the evaluator to check for compliance.
>>
>> As for Failure Techniques, I agree that they could be better written, but
>> they are more relevant to the designer and consultant (i.e. analysing
>> why/how a failure happens) rather that to the evaluator.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Shadi Abou-Zahra
>> Sent: Friday, June 08, 2012 1:03 PM
>> To: RichardWarren
>> Cc: Eval TF
>> Subject: Re: difference between techniques and procedures
>>
>> I think we should continue to reference the "Techniques" rather than the
>> test procedures which are a sub-part of a technique. The other parts of
>> a technique can also be relevant for evaluation, for example the
>> "applicability" clauses that an evaluators needs to consider too.
>>
>> Also, I think that one of the issues is that WCAG 2.0 and supporting
>> documents do not explain "Failure Techniques" ("Common Failures") [1]
>> clearly enough. We probably need to describe these a little more.
>>
>> [1]<http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/failures.html>
>>
>> Best,
>> Shadi
>>
>>
>> On 2.6.2012 12:50, RichardWarren wrote:
>>> In the light of our discussions on step 1e I think that Step 4b also
>>> appears to be confusing. I think we are trying to say that we will
>>> record
>>> the testing techniques as described at
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/intro.html#intro_testing_techs .
>>>
>>> When W3C describes techniques in its techniques collection it refers to
>>> these testing techniques as “procedures” at the end of each document
>>> under
>>> the title “Tests”. See an example at
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G1.html#G1-tests
>>>
>>> We too should use the words test procedure when we refer to what we do
>>> when we check for compliance. This would avoid confusion between the
>>> techniques that the web-designer uses to create an accessible page
>>> and the
>>> processes we, as evaluators, use to check that the page is compliant
>>> (either by using a W3C technique, or some other technique).
>>>
>>> Richard
>> --
>> Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/
>> Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office
>> Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)
>> Research and Development Working Group (RDWG)
>>
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>> CRICOS IPC 00279B
>>
>>
>>
>

-- 
Shadi Abou-Zahra - http://www.w3.org/People/shadi/
Activity Lead, W3C/WAI International Program Office
Evaluation and Repair Tools Working Group (ERT WG)
Research and Development Working Group (RDWG)

Received on Tuesday, 12 June 2012 21:51:59 UTC