- From: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
- Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:07:48 +0800
- To: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
- Cc: Revising W3C Process Community Group <public-w3process@w3.org>
peace, standard is probably fine. and it aligns with the IETF (not that many RFCs ever get there :-() On Nov 12, 2013, at 15:00 , Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote: > Hi, David– > > I agree with you that "Recommendation" is a poor word. > > I'd suggest that we do more than produce specifications; we also make comprehensive test suites, marshal together implementers, build consensus from key stakeholders, support a community of contributors and consumers, promote technologies, and many more things that nourish the ecosystem around a specification. > > Anyone can write a specification, from a design document to an organization-internal set of guidelines; as such, it's not as meaningful a term as "standard", and doesn't match what we do as well. > > Again, Wikipedia provides some useful distinction here [1]: > > [[ > A technical standard is an established norm or requirement in regard to technical systems. It is usually a formal document that establishes uniform engineering or technical criteria, methods, processes and practices. In contrast, a custom, convention, company product, corporate standard, etc. that becomes generally accepted and dominant is often called a de facto standard. > > A technical standard can also be a controlled artifact or similar formal means used for calibration. Reference Standards and certified reference materials have an assigned value by direct comparison with a reference base. A primary standard is usually under the jurisdiction of a national standards body. Secondary, tertiary, check standards and standard materials may be used for reference in a metrology system. A key requirement in this case is (metrological) traceability, an unbroken paper trail of calibrations back to the primary standard. > > A technical standard may be developed privately or unilaterally, for example by a corporation, regulatory body, military, etc. Standards can also be developed by groups such as trade unions, and trade associations. Standards organizations often have more diverse input and usually develop voluntary standards: these might become mandatory if adopted by a government, business contract, etc. > ]] > > By those criteria, W3C clearly produces voluntary standards, though not "primary standards" or mandatory standards. > > I understand your concern about the implications that we are claiming to produce mandatory standards, which I agree is undesirable; but I think we can manage that in other messaging. > > If you think it would cause friction with specific "real" (formal, mandatory, or government-endorsed) standards organizations, we should handle that with kid gloves, and make our intentions clear. > > So, I would like to see us use the word "standard" in our formal communications, especially since people already use that for W3C Recommendations in the vernacular. > > > [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_standard > > Regards- > -Doug > > On 11/12/13 2:40 PM, David Singer wrote: >> Hi Doug >> >> I think the word 'standard' has overtones of something that is >> endorsed or mandated, e.g. ITU standards for telecoms, and is >> produced by a formal standards body. I am not sure we want the >> overtones. >> >> I think we produce specifications, and that's a good word. >> >> As I say, 'recommendation' is a poor word; when we say something is >> 'recommended' *within* a spec., it's a 'should' statement. Even in >> normal english terms, what exactly are we 'recommending' and to whom >> in our specs? >> >> People who do formal standards might be concerned, though the IETF >> uses the term and it's accepted there. I don't think it would raise >> too much opposition. >> >> But, people say, casually, "go read the CSS specification", "it's in >> the HTML spec", and we may as well embrace that and use the name. >> >> >> On Nov 12, 2013, at 14:33 , Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org> wrote: >> >>> Hi, David– >>> >>> On 11/12/13 10:29 AM, David Singer wrote: >>>> Ouch. >>>> >>>> Traditionally, 'standard' means something from a standards body, >>>> and we are a trade association. But I agree, 'recommendation' is >>>> a poor word (who is recommending what?) >>> >>> That's an interesting point. I'm not sure I agree with it, based on >>> the definition of a trade association on Wikipedia [1] (emphasis >>> mine). >>> >>> [[ A trade association, also known as an industry trade group, >>> business association or sector association, is an organization >>> founded and funded by businesses that operate in a specific >>> industry. An industry trade association participates in public >>> relations activities such as advertising, education, political >>> donations, lobbying and publishing, ***but its main focus is >>> collaboration between companies, or standardization***. >>> Associations may offer other services, such as producing >>> conferences, networking or charitable events or offering classes or >>> educational materials. Many associations are non-profit >>> organizations governed by bylaws and directed by officers who are >>> also members. ]] >>> >>> However, I sense that there's some underlying reason you are shying >>> away from the word "standard", and I think it would be valuable to >>> explore any potential risks or confusion there. >>> >>> Personally, as someone who does a lot of developer relations and >>> outreach, it's burdensome to clarify to that audience what a >>> "Recommendation" is, and I end up saying "it's what W3C calls a >>> 'standard'", which is a known and common nomenclature (even >>> informal groups like WHATWG use it for their deliverables). So, >>> this would clarify and simplify our communications to several >>> audiences. >>> >>> Are there audiences we aren't thinking of that would react badly to >>> our using the word "standard"? >>> >>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_association >>> >>> Regards- -Doug >>> >> >> David Singer Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc. >> >> > > David Singer Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
Received on Tuesday, 12 November 2013 07:08:22 UTC