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Re: 2014 Sports Proposal - V3

From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 07:11:32 -0700
Message-ID: <53A19E14.3000909@kcoyle.net>
To: public-vocabs@w3.org

On 6/17/14, 8:19 PM, Peter F. Patel-Schneider wrote:

> Is a sport necessarily athletic?  Some non-athletic activites, e.g., chess,
> have governing bodies that belong to associations of sports governing
> bodies.

First, I think it would be good to discuss this with some use cases that 
are needing mark-up, then define sport in terms of those use cases. As 
there are many pages online dedicated to sports, it should be possible 
to develop a set of requirements, which may or may not encompass all of 
the questions here. That should focus the discussion.

Second, I am pretty sure that we will need to accept a grey area between 
sport and game. [1] A chess video game will be offered for sale online 
as a game, sold by a video game company, and a chess club may prefer to 
see chess as a game, even if the international chess championships are 
presented as sports. Schema.org should support the user's POV, not 
impose one of its own.


[1] http://sdo-yavg.appspot.com/Game

> What is a sport?  Is it a competitive activity that follows certain rules?
> This can't be, as just about every sport you list has variants that are
> played under different rules.  Is a sport something that has a governing
> body to codify several sets of rules?  This doesn't work either, as only a
> couple of the sports you list have particular governing bodies.  Is a sport
> something that people think of as a natural grouping?  This seems closer,
> but hockey doesn't fit here as ice hockey and field hockey are so very
> different.  Without some guidance as to what a sport is, how can there be
> any commonalities between what people use as sports?
> What makes something a team sport?  Only teams compete in Nascar, not
> individuals, for example.  Pairs tennis is competed by two players, which
> might be considered to be a team.  There are team competitions in tennis.
> Are olympic sports contested by teams or by individuals?
> You have several olympic sports.  However, half of these are not actually
> olympic sports according to Wikipedia.  Snowboarding is a discipline of
> skiing, swimming is a displine of aquatics, track isn't even a discpline.
> What makes a team a home team?  Is a home team the team that is most
> closely
> related to the venue?  What happens then when the New York Giants play the
> New York Jets?  Is instead a home team the team that is somehow designated
> by the rules of the competition as the home team?
> What is the decision for a tie?  What is the decision for a cricket draw?
> Some sports governing bodies, including cricket, provide for different
> kinds
> of status situations for events.  For example, baseball games can be in
> various states for quite some time, including suspended and protested, and
> can end up never being officially completed.
> Why is the range of sport Text?  This seems to invite abuse, with no way to
> recover.   Why not define a Class for sports, and let "things as strings"
> handle situations where text is used as a value?  The particular example of
> using a string that just happens to be the URL of a Wikipedia page only
> gets
> you the worst of both worlds.
> What is a coach?  Is a baseball (field) manager a coach?  Is a general
> manager a coach?  The answers here are fairly obvious, but it would be
> worthwhile, I think, to include some guidance.
> There are no separate classes for leagues or governing bodies, which are
> very important for almost all the sports you list, and are vitally
> important
> for the olympics.  There does not appear to be any way to discuss seasons
> or any other sort of multi-event competition except as sub-events, and
> Event
> is very poorly set up for anything besides a single-admission event.  There
> does not appear to be any way to connect an sports event to the sport being
> played or to the sanctioning body of the event.
> I think that these questions and concerns need to be addressed before the
> proposal can be considered to be mature.
> Peter F. Patel-Schneider
> On 06/16/2014 02:57 PM, Jason Johnson (BING) wrote:
>> All,
>> I’m pleased to formally announce and encourage review and feedback on an
>> updated version of the 2014 Sports Vocabulary proposal that was
>> originally
>> shared earlier this year
>> <http://blog.schema.org/2014/02/schemaorg-sports-vocabulary.html> in
>> January.
>> This is the third (and hopefully final) major update to the proposal
>> since
>> then with major changes including:
>> - overhaul of the statistics and event results vocabulary and data model
>> - removal of the ‘Event Series’ vocabulary in favor of the more generic
>> Itemlist proposal
>> - significant re-formatting to make the doc more readable
>> - alignment with the new Role based vocabulary and data model
>> A full list of changes can be found in the Change Log at the bottom of
>> the
>> exported PDF <https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:2014SportsVocab-v3.pdf>.
>> W3c Wiki Page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Sports
>> Exported PDF: https://www.w3.org/wiki/File:2014SportsVocab-v3.pdf
>> Below are links to some of the new terms within a test build of
>> Schema.org.
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/SportsOrganization
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/Statistic
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/SportsTeam
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/Decision
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/WinDecision
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/LoseDecision
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/SportsEvent
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/CompetitionEvent
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/Decision
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/PlaceDecision
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/DidNotFinishDecision
>> http://sdo-sports.appspot.com/EventCompleted
>> REGARDING FEEDBACK:  Although this effort originated in the schema.org
>> sports
>> collaboration google group
>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/sports-schema-collab>, in the
>> interests of consolidated feedback, I encourage everyone to simply use
>> this
>> W3c based public-vocabs mailing list.
>> Cheers,
>> *Jason Johnson*
>> Microsoft | Bing

Karen Coyle
kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet
Received on Wednesday, 18 June 2014 14:12:02 UTC

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