Re: property/class ambiguity in languages with no letter case

On 11 Feb 2014 03:03, "Phil Archer" <phila@w3.org> wrote:
>
> On this occasion I really am trying to avoid getting into the debate
about whether it is right or not to use an object property with a label
that is the same as the class that is its range, differentiated only by the
case of the first letter. That is an issue, and we prob should clear it up,
but not today (and I suspect there is a lot of agreement on this).
>
> I'm just asking, do you agree or not that foo -> Foo *implies* 'has foo'
-> Foo sufficiently strongly that a translation of the label into a
language that does not have upper and lower case letters can indeed be 'has
foo?'

Good point re labels.

Some examples where this doesn't work well:

subClassOf -> hasSubClassOf
alumniOf -> hasAlumniOf

The 1st points to a broader type; the 2nd to an Educational org that
someone is an alumni of.

In both cases, prepending 'has' makes less sense and encourages the
property to be misread backwards (until you read the last syllable and get
confused).

In general 'xyzOf' seems to me a 'last resort' when looking for property
names. I wish we'd called rdfs:subClassOf "superClass" instead. But as you
say that's another discussion.

Some more potential examples -
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html

This is a first cut at schema.org labels in Chinese, thanks to Baidu, where
lang of zh-cn is "Mainland China, simplified characters", and as I
understand it, caseless.

First, a class, 'Event':

     <div typeof="rdfs:Class" resource="http://schema.org/Event">

    <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l675>
      <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">Event</span>

    <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l676>
      <span class="h" property="rdfs:label" xml:lang="zh-cn">事件</span>

    <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l677>
      <span property="rdfs:comment">An event happening at a certain
time at a certain location.</span>

    <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l678>
      <span property="rdfs:comment"
xml:lang="zh-cn">在某时某地发生的一件事</span>

    <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l679>
       <span>Subclass of: <a property="rdfs:subClassOf"
href="http://schema.org/Thing">Thing</a></span>

    <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l680>
    </div>

and a property, 'event', which seems to have an identical zh-cn label:

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6142>
    <div typeof="rdf:Property" resource="http://schema.org/event">

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6143>
      <span class="h" property="rdfs:label">event</span>

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6144>
      <span class="h" property="rdfs:label" xml:lang="zh-cn">事件</span>

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6145>
      <span property="rdfs:comment">Upcoming or past event associated
with this place or organization.</span>

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6146>
      <span property="rdfs:comment"
xml:lang="zh-cn">即将发生的或已经发生的跟该地点或组织有关的事件</span>

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6147>
      <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/domain"
href="http://schema.org/Organization">Organization</a></span>

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6148>
      <span>Domain: <a property="http://schema.org/domain"
href="http://schema.org/Place">Place</a></span>

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6149>
      <span>Range: <a property="http://schema.org/range"
href="http://schema.org/Event">Event</a></span>

  <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.html#l6150>
    </div>

Not sure these chars and markup will make it through email fully to
everyone, but see webschemas mercurial repo at
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webschema/file/861b6fd28fcb/schema.org/translations/zhcn/schema_org_zhcn.htmlfor
more examples.


Dan

> Phil.
>
>
> On 11/02/2014 10:46, Jindřich Mynarz wrote:
>>
>> OK, I thought I must have misunderstood that. (However, you can argue
that
>> you can provide owl:equivalentProperty links between the translated
URIs.)
>>
>> If translating rdfs:labels is indeed the case, then why not have 2
>> vocabulary terms with the same label? Is it because it confuses
vocabulary
>> users and worsens usability of the vocabulary in question? What other
>> concerns do you have on mind?
>>
>> - Jindřich
>>
>
> --
>
>
> Phil Archer
> W3C Data Activity Lead
> http://www.w3.org/2013/data/
>
> http://philarcher.org
> +44 (0)7887 767755
> @philarcher1
>