- From: Aaron Bradley <aaranged@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 11:11:27 -0800
- To: Guha <guha@google.com>
- Cc: "Barker, Phil A" <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>, W3C Vocabularies <public-vocabs@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAMbipBtifkFwNNDjbHPTh3m+vsZzKb08bLCF6xh2hNa-5_Lg+Q@mail.gmail.com>
> > 3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a > collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks. > > Not sure I understand. Not speaking here for Phil, leaning on my own trials and tribulations trying to mark up both online and brick-and-mortar courses, I do see what I he means in both cases. EducationEvent Each instance is definitely an event because (at least for non-online courses) it is time-bound. As Vicki says in her description of CourseSession [1] "The session may meet repeatedly or be a single event." And indeed, most of the properties for CourseSession are to be found in Event. And a Course (and a CourseSession and a OnlineCourse) are fully creative works: they are the result of concerted creative effort, and a artifact is produced, even it is a temporally-bound artifact. This is nowhere more evident than for a OnlineCourse, which itself has one or more types of associatedMedia (image, video and audio resources, as well as associated media). If OnlineCourse isn't to be a type of CreativeWork, then I'd say these required properties are missing from the proposal (and mostly apply to course, too): author (Courses don't create themselves - and a course author may not be its presenter) copyrightHolder (Courses are often copyrighted) copyrightYear publisher (Any online course must have a publisher because it is published on the web) review (Even if a course session if reviewable, it's arguably more important to be able to review an entire course) dateModified datePublished (Very applicable to online courses, which are published at a certain point of time. They are often modified as well.) Re: sessionMaterial Awkward when limited to CourseSession. For example it is not only not uncommon but the norm for a textbook for a brick-and-mortar college or university course to be used for the entire course, not just for a session. But I'll leave it at that because I know there's been discussion of Course vs CourseSession that may bear on this. Re: offers A property under OnlineCourse but not Course or CourseSession. Just an oversight, I think, as we see offers as a property for the example CourseSession. Again w/o going into Course vs. CourseSession in-depth, obviously a "course" in the colloquial sense can have an offer associated with it ("Course in Spanish Cooking at Hobbes Community Centre - 5 nights, $250.00" - or perhaps that's a CourseSession?) Re: "Traditional University Course" example ("Artificial Intelligence") has property "timeRequirement"; as per the schema above for Course, and the existing property, should be "timeRequired" [1] https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit#heading=h.ptcem88xkwvp On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Guha <guha@google.com> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:44 AM, Guha <guha@google.com> wrote: >> >> See comments inline >> >> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 3:19 AM, Barker, Phil A <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Vicki, thanks for the heads up, I would have missed this otherwise. >>> >>> I have added some comments to the Google Doc, the most significant are: >>> >>> 1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at >>> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes >>> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses). >>> >> >> I think a programme is different from a course. >> >> >>> >>> 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate class >>> on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it is >>> online or not. I think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also apply >>> to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component. >>> >>> Something like an edX course is very different from a high school course >> where the student shows up in class. The former has a number of properties >> that don't make sense for the latter. So, it needs to be a class. >> >> >>> 3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a >>> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks. >>> >>> Not sure I understand. >> >> >>> 4. Language is difficult. The different usage between UK and US English >>> is one thing, but more importantly commonly used terms often relate to >>> specific education systems or pedagogies. So phrases like "instructors >>> deliver lessons to students" implies a particular pedagogy. Also this means >>> that common terms become ambiguous and open to misinterpretation in >>> international use, e.g. class, course, programme, module. This is important >>> in schema.org where definitions tend to be minimalist. >>> >>> Hope this helps. >>> >>> As a general question, do you have some usecases in mind and target >>> example websites? It's difficult to assess whether these properties are >>> sufficient and realistic without those. >>> >>> Yes. There is request to be able to describe the offerings of edX, et. >> al. with schema.org properties >> >> >>> Phil >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com] >>> *Sent:* 15 December 2014 18:40 >>> *To:* Wes Turner >>> *Cc:* GUANGYUAN PIAO; Thad Guidry; Aaron Bradley; Public Vocabs >>> *Subject:* Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse >>> >>> (I commented on GitHub, but I am not sure if everyone is over there, >>> so I am duplicating the message here.) >>> >>> I have read through all of the comments and background links and >>> attempted to pull the various ideas into a cohesive whole. My thoughts are >>> still rather preliminary, but can be found at >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12YWjLzZC8FiTiOwSAETRIEozeqZdn6O8a4fgqK4t5Ss/edit?usp=sharing >>> >>> It would be nice to be able to support in-person classes (academic or >>> not) and MOOCs. >>> >>> Please comment here or on GitHub. >>> >>> - Vicki >>> >>> >>> Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 4:35 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I've created a GitHub issue ticket for this Proposal: >>>> >>>> https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/issues/195 >>>> >>>> cc'ing a comment here, because DRY: >>>> >>>> What is missing or could be added? >>>>> From >>>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Feb/0127.html : >>>>> >>>>>> Properties: >>>>>> >>>>>> - derivedFrom/previousIncantation property could also be helpful. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> - prerequisitve/buildsUpon/suggestedPrerequisite properties would >>>>>> be great. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> Types for these properties would need to be <Course>. >>>> >>>> ... This would then form a graph of Courses and/or OnlineCourses. >>>> >>>> >>>> It may be most helpful to transition discussion to a task-focused >>>> GitHub issue. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In creating said ticket [openbadges/openbadges-specifiation/9], I'm >>>>> having trouble linking to the entirety of a mailing list thread (who know). >>>>> >>>>> Is there / should there be an issue for OnlineCourse here: >>>>> https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/issues ? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I've opened a ticket with the OpenBadges specification project: >>>>>> https://github.com/openbadges/openbadges-specification/issues/9 >>>>>> >>>>>> > How could/should we reference badges offered by a >>>>>> schema.org/OnlineCourse ? >>>>>> >>>>>> > We could point to just URIs, but then we'd need to lookup badge >>>>>> titles. >>>>>> >>>>>> > Would it be feasible to create schema.org/Badge ? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:11 PM, GUANGYUAN PIAO <parklize@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. Is it worth adding a "prerequisiteCourse" property to list the >>>>>>>> prerequisites for the given course? >>>>>>>> - IMO, "prerequisiteCourse" or "requirements" for the Course >>>>>>>> could provide rich snippets for users to know if it >>>>>>>> is appropriate for him/her. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Where can I add topical links to wikipedia (dbpedia [1])? e.g. >>>>>>> This course is about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_data and >>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] http://lod-cloud.net/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. Can we change "isCertificateAvailable" from a boolean to >>>>>>>> something with a little more data? Maybe the type of certificate granted or >>>>>>>> the institution granting the certificate? >>>>>>>> - +1, and then it will need Certificate type and additional >>>>>>>> properties to think about. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://openbadges.org/ are gaining momentum. [2] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Would "credential" be a more generic predicate? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Open_Badges >>>>>>> [3] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Badges >>>>>>> [4] https://github.com/mozilla/openbadges#mozilla-open-badges >>>>>>> [5] >>>>>>> https://github.com/openbadges/openbadges-specification/blob/master/Assertion/latest.md >>>>>>> (JSON Web Signatures) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Wes Turner >>>>>>> https://westurner.github.io/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Wes Turner >>>>>> https://westurner.github.io/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Wes Turner >>>>> https://westurner.github.io/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> We invite research leaders and ambitious early career researchers to >>> join us in leading and driving research in key inter-disciplinary themes. >>> Please see www.hw.ac.uk/researchleaders for further information and how >>> to apply. >>> >>> Heriot-Watt University is a Scottish charity registered under charity >>> number SC000278. >>> >>
Received on Tuesday, 16 December 2014 19:11:55 UTC