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Re: Inverse Properties in Microdata:, was Re: schema.org update, v1.8: added WebSite type; broadened isPartOf to relate CreativeWorks

From: Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 08:10:49 +0100
Message-ID: <CAK-qy=7XYfe5jJNxTkJkfdDrnhXb9fuC=EQWJgpSFfXTh-i8mg@mail.gmail.com>
To: "martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org" <martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org>
Cc: W3C Web Schemas Task Force <public-vocabs@w3.org>, "Jason Johnson (BING)" <jasjoh@microsoft.com>, Jarno van Driel <jarnovandriel@gmail.com>, Juraj Kabát <kabat.juraj@gmail.com>
On 1 August 2014 07:52, martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org
<martin.hepp@ebusiness-unibw.org> wrote:
> There is a fully-fledged proposal to add inverse properties to microdata:
>
>     https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/InverseProperties
>
> (as Jarno knows, for he was involved in the discussion ;-)

And I well remember too. We had also already begun a discussion on the
WHATWG list, so the issue is well established.

> Maybe we can ask Dan to look into this matter again? It would really help to have this feature.

I think it is indeed time to revisit. I didn't want to push for
@itemprop-reverse until the Role work stabilised, but now that is done
I believe it's time. That said, there is still sometimes justification
for adding a reverse property, and the site software now supports
linking such pairs where they exist (e.g. see
http://schema.org/alumni). Anyway, I'll take it to the HTML folks and
report back.

Dan

> Best wishes / Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Martin Hepp
>
>
> On 01 Aug 2014, at 00:40, Jarno van Driel <jarnovandriel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "I notice you don’t have an itemprop attribute in your first <div> element.  Was that intentional?"
>>
>> That would only have been possible if 'hasPart' (which isn't part of the specification) could have been used (or itemprop-reverse="isPartOf").
>>
>> Because there is no inverse property of 'isPartOf', nor a reverse mechanism for microdata, Juraj is bound to chain the entities together by making use of <link itemprop="isPartOf" href="[itemid-value]">.
>>
>> A cumbersome method, that now can be applied where it first couldn't. All be it but one that can be improved still.
>>
>>
>> 2014-07-31 17:52 GMT+02:00 Jason Johnson (BING) <jasjoh@microsoft.com>:
>> I notice you don’t have an itemprop attribute in your first <div> element.  Was that intentional?
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Juraj Kabát [mailto:kabat.juraj@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:08 AM
>> To: public-vocabs@w3.org
>> Cc: W3C Web Schemas Task Force
>> Subject: Re: schema.org update, v1.8: added WebSite type; broadened isPartOf to relate CreativeWorks
>>
>>
>>
>> When Ill try to add isPartOf property to ItemList, Im getting this warning:
>>
>> WARNING: isPartOf field not specified in http://schema.org/ItemList
>>
>> Example snippet:
>> <body itemid="#WebPage" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/CollectionPage">
>>     <div class="products" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ItemList">
>>         <meta content="Unordered" itemprop="itemListOrder">
>>         <link itemprop="isPartOf" href="#WebPage">
>>
>>         <div itemtype="http://schema.org/Product" itemscope itemprop="itemListElement">
>>         <img src="[url]" itemprop="image">
>>         <a href="[url]" itemprop="url"><span itemprop="name">[name]</span></a>
>>       <span itemtype="http://schema.org/Offer" itemscope itemprop="offers">
>>             <span itemprop="price">[price]</span>
>>       </span>
>>         </div>
>>
>>         <div itemtype="http://schema.org/Product" itemscope itemprop="itemListElement">
>>         <img src="[url]" itemprop="image">
>>         <a href="[url]" itemprop="url"><span itemprop="name">[name]</span></a>
>>       <span itemtype="http://schema.org/Offer" itemscope itemprop="offers">
>>             <span itemprop="price">[price]</span>
>>       </span>
>>         </div>
>>
>>     </div>
>> </body>
>>
>>
>> But when Ill add isPartOf property to each ItemListElement, everything works like expected.
>> What am I missing here? ItemList extends CreativeWork as well...
>>
>> Why can't I chain whole ItemList to parent but instead of that I have to repeat myself for every element in list?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 10:20 PM, Jarno van Driel <jarnovandriel@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Personally I most of all like the addition of WebSite (and it's creative example) as well as the reworked 'isPartOf' most and I've already started to implementing them.  :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> But I would have been an even happier camper if 'hasPart' would have been introduced as well. And even though chaining WebSite > WebPage > WebPageElements > CreativeWork now can be achieved, without abusing 'mentions' for this, it unfortunately is quite cumbersome in microdata because one has to use itemid quite a lot, eg:
>>
>>
>>
>> <body itemid="#WebPage" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage">
>>
>> <nav itemid="#SiteNavigationElement" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/SiteNavigationElement">
>>
>> <link itemprop="isPartOf" href="#WebPage">
>>
>> <ul>
>>
>> <li itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage" itemid="#WebPage-1">
>>
>> <link itemprop="isPartOf" href="#SiteNavigationElement">
>>
>> <a itemprop="url" href="[some-page-url]">
>>
>> <span itemprop="name">[some-page-name]</span>
>>
>> </a>
>>
>> <ul>
>>
>> <li itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage">
>>
>> <link itemprop="isPartOf" href="#WebPage-1" />
>>
>> <a itemprop="url" href="[some-page-url]">
>>
>> <span itemprop="name">[some-page-name]</span>
>>
>> </a>
>>
>> </li>
>>
>> <li itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/WebPage">
>>
>> <link itemprop="isPartOf" href="#WebPage-1" />
>>
>> <a itemprop="url" href="[some-page-url]">
>>
>> <span itemprop="name">[some-page-name]</span>
>>
>> </a>
>>
>> </li>
>>
>> </ul>
>>
>> </li>
>>
>> </ul>
>>
>> </nav>
>>
>> </body>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm still quite pleased with the update is as though.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-07-28 17:43 GMT+02:00 Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>> previous update (1.7),
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2014Jul/0012.html
>>
>> A small schema.org update just went live:
>>
>> 1. We add a new CreativeWork type, "WebSite"
>>
>> http://schema.org/WebSite
>>
>> "A WebSite is a set of related web pages and other items typically
>> served from a single web domain and accessible via URLs."
>>
>> The example shows the use of this with SearchAction.
>>
>> 2. We adopt the proposal made by the bibextend group and other
>> collaborators, to broaden isPartOf. It now relates any CreativeWork to
>> any other CreativeWork
>>
>> http://schema.org/isPartOf
>>
>> see also https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Periodicals,_Articles_and_Multi-volume_Works
>>
>> 3. Potential Actions documentation
>>
>> The previously PDF-only Potential Actions document is now on the site in HTML:
>>
>> http://schema.org/docs/actions.html
>>
>> 4. Adopted some markup fixes from Stephane Corlosquet (thanks!)
>>
>> https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/pull/71
>>
>> 5. Improved consistency of encoding / associatedMedia description
>> (thanks Dan Scott!)
>>
>> https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/pull/35
>>
>> 6. Updated some out-of-date sections of the FAQ: it now mentions
>> Yandex appropriately, acknowledges that there's life beyond Microdata
>> (i.e. RDFa, JSON-LD), and doesn't talk about "version 0.9 draft" any
>> more.
>>
>>  https://github.com/rvguha/schemaorg/pull/69
>>
>> Thanks all :)
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Friday, 1 August 2014 07:11:18 UTC

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