RE: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle

Thanks.

The EBU genre lists has been developed  with the help of many experts from the AV community. It has a long history of cooperation with other communities like mpeg 10 years ago or UK DTG hybrid tv projects. It is a maintained list. We also took care of clearly separating genre from format or target audience, etc.

The EBU lists are proposed as default. It is not expected to save the world. Just best effort. But it can be extended at will according simple backward compatibility rules, if considered of value.

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Morris [mailto:tfmorris@gmail.com] 
Sent: mardi, 8. mai 2012 20:37
To: Evain, Jean-Pierre
Cc: Dan Brickley; Sandhaus, Evan; Andreas Gebhard; Егор Антонов; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle

Sorry, I misunderstood the context for the warning at the top of the
EBU page.  It's not referring to the list itself, so the IPTC list is
the only one that suffers from this mixing.

Tom

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:24 PM, Evain, Jean-Pierre <evain@ebu.ch> wrote:
> That's interesting.
>
> What would you call genre then?
>
> Jp
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Morris [mailto:tfmorris@gmail.com]
> Sent: mardi, 8. mai 2012 20:22
> To: Evain, Jean-Pierre
> Cc: Dan Brickley; Sandhaus, Evan; Andreas Gebhard; Егор Антонов; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
> Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>
> Both lists seem to include all kinds of things that I wouldn't
> consider to be genres at all.  The EBU list explicitly disclaims this
> weakness, but the IPTC list isn't any better with a mixture of media
> formats (e.g. text vs voice), temporal characteristics, etc along with
> the genres.
>
> It seems undesirable to carry this confusion forward to a new scheme.
>
> Tom
>
> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Evain, Jean-Pierre <evain@ebu.ch> wrote:
>> I forgot to mention the rdf version of these: http://www.ebu.ch/metadata/ontologies/skos/ebu_ContentGenreCS.rdf
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Evain, Jean-Pierre [mailto:evain@ebu.ch]
>> Sent: mardi, 8. mai 2012 19:52
>> To: 'Dan Brickley'
>> Cc: Sandhaus, Evan; Andreas Gebhard; Егор Антонов; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
>> Subject: RE: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>>
>> Yes, you can use the URL to the CS plus a pointer to #termId or a #termName from http://www.ebu.ch/metadata/cs/ebu_ContentGenreCS.xml
>>
>> This is a superset of the TVA contentCS/genre list but I can put the TVA original list there. There are already many others from TVA otherwise not coverd by EBU superset.
>>
>> The between lists can be found here: http://www.ebu.ch/metadata/cs/web/ebu_ContentGenreCS_Mapping_p.xml.html
>>
>> But actually this means that many similar lists can provide alternative contextual controlled vocabularies.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan Brickley [mailto:danbri@danbri.org]
>> Sent: mardi, 8. mai 2012 19:45
>> To: Evain, Jean-Pierre
>> Cc: Sandhaus, Evan; Andreas Gebhard; Егор Антонов; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8 May 2012, at 19:41, "Evain, Jean-Pierre" <evain@ebu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> You actually might as well go for TV-Anytime where you can find satire and broken comedy, which are actually more programme than news genre, and are furthermore supported by BBC and UK DTG.
>>
>> Can you recommend some URL patterns for these?
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>> JP
>>> ________________________________________
>>> From: Dan Brickley [danbri@danbri.org]
>>> Sent: 08 May 2012 19:38
>>> To: Sandhaus, Evan
>>> Cc: Andreas Gebhard; Егор Антонов; Olson, Peter; PDEC Research; public-vocabs@w3.org
>>> Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>>>
>>> On 8 May 2012, at 19:34, "Sandhaus, Evan" <sandhes@nytimes.com<mailto:sandhes@nytimes.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 for using the IPTC Controlled Vocabulary for News Genre.
>>>
>>> The vocabulary can be found in human readable form here: http://cv.iptc.org/newscodes/genre/ and in RDF/XML here http://cv.iptc.org/Requester?scheme=genre&format=rdf
>>>
>>> And yes, there are URLs for all of these properties.
>>>
>>> There is currently no item in this controlled vocabulary for 'Satirical Article,' however, we can likely remedy that by June.
>>>
>>> Great, let's go for it then. I'll add a genre example with these. Any chance of live data eg NYT?
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Evan
>>> --
>>> Evan Sandhaus
>>> Lead Architect, Semantic Platforms
>>> The New York Times Company
>>> @kansandhaus
>>>
>>> On May 8, 2012, at 12:16 PM, Dan Brickley wrote:
>>>
>>> On 4 May 2012 15:22, Andreas Gebhard <Andreas.Gebhard@gettyimages.com<mailto:Andreas.Gebhard@gettyimages.com>> wrote:
>>> Not a bad idea. "genre" points to a controlled vocabulary maintained by the IPTC and it wouldn't be too hard to discuss the addition of (comedy|satire|etc.) to that.
>>>
>>> Thanks all. I agree that 'genre' in this case would be a more elegant
>>> express things here. In general I'm not against having simple
>>> low-content types, since both microdata and rdfa offer nice syntactic
>>> support for them. But yes definitely pointing into an IPTC list of
>>> genres, 'comedy' vs 'satire' etc. would be great.
>>>
>>> I've just sent around a new ExternalEnumerations doc, see
>>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vocabs/2012May/0009.html
>>> ... maybe we can work through the detail of this for 'genre'? Do you
>>> have the relevant IPTC URLs, ideally some that are well-used in some
>>> public datasets?
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>> On May 1, 2012, at 23:41 , Егор Антонов wrote:
>>>
>>> schema.org/Article<http://schema.org/Article> has 'genre' property, cannot we use it for this purpose?
>>> I think it's a bad practice to create a new type until it has its own properties
>>> --
>>> Egor
>>>
>>> 02.05.2012, 06:13, "Olson, Peter" <polson@marvel.com<mailto:polson@marvel.com>>:
>>> In an attempt to surgically extract all humor from this subject...wouldn't satire be a flag as part of a larger article type? I can maybe reach out - I have some contacts in the comedy world.
>>>
>>> - Peter
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: PDEC Research [mailto:lists@personaldataecosystem.org]
>>> Sent: Sun 4/29/2012 8:40 PM
>>> To: Dan Brickley
>>> Cc: public-vocabs@w3.org<mailto:public-vocabs@w3.org>
>>> Subject: Re: vocab idea: SatiricalArticle
>>>
>>> You could just add a parody bit. Then if the whole content is odd, the processor can throw a parody exception.
>>>
>>> On Apr 29, 2012, at 1:43 PM, Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org<mailto:danbri@danbri.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> (disclaimer: thinking out loud)
>>>
>>> A smart-enough-to-know-better friend who shall remain nameless just
>>> re-shared this link, having given it a quick check over (by searching)
>>> and it looked real enough. At first glance it was Onion-esque but
>>> wasn't obviously one of theirs, so got re-shared:
>>>
>>> http://www.freewoodpost.com/2012/03/13/mitt-romney-i-can-relate-to-black-people-my-ancestors-once-owned-slaves/
>>>
>>> The article is completely false, as
>>> http://www.freewoodpost.com/disclaimer/ indicates.  If you view
>>> source, you see itemtype="http://schema.org/Article" though (and a
>>> load more metadata, ogp etc).
>>>
>>> I was wondering whether an addition such as
>>> http://schema.org/SatiricalArticle could ever get traction.
>>>
>>> My initial conclusion is 'no', ... since most of the obvious
>>> applications of 'SatiricalArticle' would likely slow the viral spread
>>> of fake outrageous news around the Web, and so get little support from
>>> publishers like the above, or
>>> http://www.landoverbaptist.org/ http://christwire.org/
>>> http://www.theonion.com/ http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/ etc. But you
>>> never know, there might be some other incentives (e.g. disclaimers?)
>>> that could support such an idea.
>>>
>>> So I thought I'd float the suggestion. If anyone here happens to know
>>> such publishers, I'm curious of their perspective. Would a
>>> machine-readable indicator of 'satire' be interesting to any of them?
>>> Presumably they get much of their traffic from controversy caused by
>>> reposting shocking "news". Of course there's always scope for that
>>> same metadata to be created by third parties, but that's an old old
>>> story (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-PICS-labels/ etc).
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Received on Tuesday, 8 May 2012 18:47:03 UTC