Minutes for VCWG telecon 16 July 2019

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2019/07/16-vcwg-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking these minutes, Oliver, Amy and Ganesh!

Kazuyuki

---

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                    Verifiable Claims Working Group

16 Jul 2019

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-wg/2019Jul/0006.html

Attendees

   Present
          Daniel_Burnett, Tzviya_Siegman, Ted_Thibodeau, Amy_Guy,
          David_Chadwick, Justin_Richer, Manu_Sporny, Matt_Stone,
          Dmitri_Zagidulin, Dave_Longley, Oliver_Terbu,
          Brent_Zundel, Jonathan_Holt, Benjamin_Young,
          Allen_Brown, Ken_Ebert, Ganesh_Annan, Yancy_Ribbens,
          Kaz_Ashimura, Kaliya_Young

   Regrets

   Chair
          Dan_Burnett, Matt_Stone

   Scribe
          Oliver, Amy, Ganesh

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Describe plan for the call
         2. [5]Update from call with Director
         3. [6]iat/nbf discussion
         4. [7]Implicit Typing
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     * [9]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribenick: oliver

Describe plan for the call

   burn: the plan for today is pretty much the same as for last
   week
   ... Andrei is not here today, so we are not discussing
   implemention guide because he is not here today

Update from call with Director

   burn: next item on the agenda
   ... we had a call, the chairs and manu, with w3c director last
   week

   manu: mostly, we had a couple of questions, first iat/nbf issue
   ... he suggested a way around it which we tried to exeute on
   over the past few days
   ... second one, type discussion where that has been going in
   ways where we can resolve that
   ... it is considered to be bad on formal objections
   ... only if the group sees no way forward, we should raise
   formal objections to the director
   ... request primarily was to figure out in the group first
   ... what we need to do on the call today is what we do with
   iat/nbf
   ... we should talk about that first as it is not as
   controversial as the type thing
   ... these are the two things between us getting a standard out
   ... we should skip all other PRs as they are editorial

   <manu> [10]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pulls

     [10] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pulls

   burn: agree, all other are minor looking

   <manu> These are all editorial, except for the two ones that
   are problematic.... iat/nbf and types.

   burn: we should talk about the significant two PRs

   manu: if there are no objections, let's pick the iat/nbf first

iat/nbf discussion

   no objections

   <manu> [11]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/668

     [11] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/668

   <rhiaro> scribenick: rhiaro

   oliver: when the final version of the test suite got merged it
   never had the iat, had the nbf

   jonathan_holt: is the PR misnamed? in the PR nbf is in addition
   to iat. You can't have it issued and not be valid according to
   the JWT spec
   ... is it really a replacement semantically?

   manu: if oliver's PR added something normative that would be
   another CR. If he was changing soemthing that implementers had
   implemented before the change, that would be another CR

   oliver: as far as I remember we first updated the PR of the
   test suite and then test suite got merged and contained the nbf
   for the final version of the test suite, it was never checking
   the iat field. I agree with jonathan that nbf and iat, it's no
   contradiction to use both. According to the JWT spec and JOSE
   attributes the semantics of iat is copmletely different
   ... I would have expected implementers to be aware of that and
   use iat to express the current date of issue and the natural
   way of doing this is to use nbf to specify to express the not
   valid until. The w3c spec was in contradiction to the JWt
   specification. Was definitely a bug

   manu: bugs are CR-triggering things
   ... It may have been the natural thing to do for some
   implementers but we have two examples of implementers who
   implemented per the spec, and that was the wrong thing to do
   ... that is the position of the director
   ... The test suite is not a normative thing. It's something we
   provide people but the normative thing is the spec
   ... THE thing that has to survive CR without bugfixes and
   substantative changes
   ... Two implementations need to be updated we know about. The
   concern is there would be others we don't know about

   burn: If I were going to explain this was okay my statement
   would be that the people who know what they're doing with JWT
   would naturally implement it the correct way and would be
   surprised to find the spec said something different, and would
   do what oliver did fore xample
   ... for people who implemented it naively, who aren't familiar
   with what it's for, in that case I could say that the people
   who did that as soon as they ran it against the test suite they
   realised there was a problem and then they fixed it
   ... however I am mentally prepared for this to trigger a CR
   because the rationale is that, say you go from CR to PR, if
   there isn't a warning (a new CR) then the expectation of
   someone who reads the PR is that nothing important in their
   implementation had to change from when the CR was published
   ... It could be that they misunderstood something. We don't
   know how someone might have implemented incorrectly, so it's
   more that aside from clarificatiosn on what we meant, no
   changes would be required to an implementation
   ... Using that definition, this is a substantive change

   <TallTed> I see no good way around the fast-track minimal
   iat/nbf CR#2, in parallel with PR transition process.

   <burn> For the record, I am not worried about the implementer
   in the woods. I don't think they are out there. I also agree
   with David that any random implementer out there would have
   checked against the test suite.

   DavidC: I'm concerned about this implementer out in th ewoods
   somewhere because whatever we do is not going to affect what
   they do, therefore I don't see why it should affect why we go
   to CR or PR. If they have an implementation and they want it to
   work they need to run it against the test suite. The minute
   they do that they find the bug. I don't see how there could be
   someone out there who has implemented wrongly and hasn't tested
   it. This person

   surely doesn't exist

   manu: this has happened before with the JSON-LD spec.
   Implementers don't run things against the test suite if they
   don't want to support the whole spec

   <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to say these tests didn't exist
   incorrectly; PR was created with iat and edited to nbf before
   merge

   TallTed: for history's sake, the test suite never existed with
   the incorrect test, that is true.
   ... The PR was submitted with the incorrect test but it was
   corrected before merge. Tested run before merge did not test
   these aspects of JWT translation
   ... Yes you passed but it wasn't testing this thing
   ... I am also seeing no way around the fast track minimal fix
   this definite bug, typo, no question, anyone who is experienced
   would do the right thing, but unfortunatelyt he spec is not
   written for someone who is experienced in everything involved
   ... the test suite not being available when the CR went out
   means we really can't point to it

   oliver: I agree with that
   ... Isn't it the case the test suite report should only be
   valid when testing against the final test suite? Not against
   PRs? They would have to be rerun

   TallTed: yes, preliminary tests are informative to the test
   suite devs. The spec is the governing factor. If you fail a
   test you go back and say the spec said this and the test did
   that. The spec is the thing in control, the test suite would be
   incorrect

   DavidC: My student tells me he didn't run any tests with iat,
   all the tests he ran were with nbf

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to propose a path forward.

   manu: The only thing that would save us at this point is if
   markus also said he looked at the spec and saw iat but
   implemented nbf anyway because that was the right thing to do
   ... the point we're at is to issue another CR, very tight
   turnaround. We can explain this is a very fine line and we
   don't think goign through another CR is going to impact
   implementers who are doing the right thing. We don't think
   there are any bad implementations out in the wild. And hope
   that the director agrees the group has done everything to reach
   out and you know all the people who have implemented it, then
   we can go straight to PR. If he
   ... says no we need to go to CR, then we'll trigger another 28
   day turnaround with this as the only substantive change and the
   only feature we're requesting feedback on, and then we'll try
   to get an emergency call with the director this week, processes
   all of the PRs and try to get a CR published asap and then
   parallel track the PR
   ... The PR will assume this change is going to go through and
   can be published shortly thereafter or on the same day the CR
   ends
   ... Would anyone object to that approach?

   burn: the director also said nobody wants to issue a spec with
   a bug, and they also don't want w3c process to kill this in
   this case where it is highly unlikely that there is an
   implementation in the wild for which this would be a problem.
   They're going to try to find a way to make it work even if we
   have to do this special issue CR

   manu: As another data point, this is one of the reasons we
   tried to get the DID test suite out there now is to avoid what
   is happeneing now, that there is a bug in the spec and the test
   suite didn't catch it early enough

   <scribe> scribenick: oliver

Implicit Typing

   <manu> [12]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/682

     [12] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/682

   manu: before we jump into this discussion
   ... i want to clarify
   ... all of us are arguing for the same thing
   ... what we are arguing about here
   ... is the amount of detail what we do
   ... pls feel free to correct me
   ... implicit typing was always done
   ... but we were so vague that

   <DavidC> I actually disagree with that statement

   manu: disagreement is not a vs b but how detailed we want to be
   about a
   ... some say let's keep it vague
   ... not figure it out until PR
   ... put in impl guide
   ... other say we need to spell out how implicit typing works in
   the spec
   ... that is more or less where the convo is
   ... on top of that always happens, this type of discussion,
   there is always the last issue that the group has to close and
   is always controversial thing
   ... we really have to try hard to compromise and come to
   consensus during this discussion
   ... if we cannot achieve that then it is going to a director's
   decision
   ... we might not have time to figure that out

   burn: thi sis normal for working groups
   ... and i have been in different ones than manu
   ... we all have to work towards our endgoal
   ... we were just talking about making a special issuance CR
   ... we need to keep that absolutely minimal as possible
   ... still complaints from ppl who have objections
   ... we don't want to open this CR to these ppl

   DavidC: this issue was explicitly introduced in june
   ... it was not explicitly articulated and it was not in the doc
   ... the doc has not outlined the steps that we took
   ... i agree we want to get to PR, don't agree that implicit
   type was ever in the CR

   <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to ask about "top level properties"
   -- precise definition may help to resolve this more quickly

   DavidC: i am happy to keep implicit in but in a controlled
   manner

   TallTed: my question is about the part that david has
   highlighted which is the top level property
   ... which forces the secondary type
   ... i am not sure what you mean by a top level property
   ... is it something that describes the credential
   ... or something that is contained in the cred

   DavidC: currently, we specify everytrhing what a credential can
   contain
   ... all the properties
   ... every property has a type which is mandatory

   <DavidC> oliver property->object

   <DavidC> oliver every object has a type

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to make the argument for "implicit was
   always in there" and point to spec text.

   manu: the reason that i said implicit was always in there
   ... and i agree wth david that it was not clearly stated
   ... some of us have been involved with the linked data world
   for a very long time, graph based data model for a long time
   ... in that world, there were many ways to dertmine the type of
   an object
   ... first, we really need to make the type mandaotry but in my
   head
   ... i can see that ppl who not come from the world, need that
   ... fundamentally it was not a harmful thing

   <manu>
   [13]https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-data-model/#types

     [13] https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-data-model/#types

   manu: this PR says whethere the spec said it before or
   something new

   <manu> "All credentials, presentations, and encapsulated
   objects MUST specify, or be associated with"

   manu: that or be associated with means something specific to
   linked data community
   ... something associated with a type
   ... now i am gonna list them
   ... in some cases, you don't need type at all

   <dlongley> the definition of the SSN property can say "the
   domain of this property is Person"

   manu: determining the type, you can look at the proeprty and
   know what that thing is associated with
   ... properties can be directly mapped to types
   ... in some cases it you could say it is abosolutely implicit
   ... in the json-ld world, when you specify the context,
   ... those things have to map the properties that you have in
   the document
   ... if you have a context mechanism, then you don't need type
   ... when you add another property, then you have to add another
   context
   ... then you don't need the typing stuff
   ... becaue the app knows how to deal with that stuff
   ... i am disagreeing that implicit was not in there in the spec
   ... the thing is missing that you are not coming from the
   linked data space
   ... it is a language issue
   ... and the language led to confusion
   ... but there is abosolutly a way to read the spec where
   implicit typing is in the spec

   <Zakim> burn, you wanted to check on DavidC/TallTed when Manu
   is done and to summarize Manu that if you are a JSON-LD person
   you will understand "be associated with" to mean "implicit

   manu: which was the intention i wrote the spec

   <dlongley> +1 to the above

   burn: if you are a json-ld person, then you would believe that
   implicit type aws in the spec
   ... if you are used to json-ld
   ... other comment
   ... david chadwick and tallted, if either of you have questions
   that i brought up, requeue

   jonathan_holt: this really requires json-ld processing, in
   barcelona we agreed that context was required, but processing
   it, was not

   DavidC: when you read the very next sentence, then you will
   find the definition what associate meant
   ... and that object does not have a type
   ... it did'nt have the implications that you thought about
   ... from the start of this WG, what about if ppl don't
   understand json-ld
   ... it was yes, they are perfectly fine with json
   ... the very next sentence defines what associates means...
   ... that was the first point
   ... if you had a new property, then you have to add a new
   context
   ... but that is not true
   ... it is not actually correct what you are saying for that
   reason

   ken: also commented, not coming from a json-ld background
   ... it was confusing for me first
   ... after the first discussion, i figured there were additional
   ways to define type
   ... my conclusion is to allow either way, explitic and implicit
   ... and it would satisfy the needs of multiple communities

   <brentz> +1

   ken: so i was happy to have either explicit or implicit

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to say it DOES NOT require JSON-LD
   processing. and to address "very next sentence" bit

   manu: two things ...
   ... first jonathan, that does not require json-ld processing
   ... you don't have to need a json-ld processor for implicit
   typing
   ... you could ignore the whole json-ld syntax
   ... when two systems are communicating, they need to establish
   context
   ... not necessarily json-ld context
   ... it is like french
   ... both have to speak french
   ... even a json developer has to specifiy the context of the
   communication
   ... they have to define the vocabularies they are using to
   establish the communication
   ... @context does that
   ... if we had not json-ld, then woiuld have something else
   ... it is not a json-ld thing, it is a data semantics thing
   ... you don't need a json-ld processor for implicit typing to
   work
   ... json developers are stealing @context from json-ld to set
   the appropriate context and with that you could do all types of
   explicit and implicit typing
   ... you have to pay attention to the context
   ... you don't need to do that but when you do that you are
   typing implicitly
   ... if ppl are coming from a pure json background, it is an
   information semantics thing

   <Zakim> burn, you wanted to ask that we not tell other people
   what they think the spec meant; they know themselves

   <Zakim> brentz, you wanted to say it is not a definition, it is
   an example

   <dlongley> JSON has context, it's just not formalized in
   anything other than a human readable spec... (you have to hard
   code to your applications to it) ... all `@context` does is
   make it machine readable.

   brentz: there seems to be two ways forward
   ... either we remove the sentence about the implicit types are
   allowed
   ... we remove the claritiy that it introduces to the spec
   ... and allow future impl to check is implicit typing required
   or not
   ... or we could make this clarification and move forward
   ... the fact that both sides are the reading the same text but
   iinterpreting it differently, is a sign to clarifiy the spec

   davidc: i agree clarification is needed and i agree it is a
   information semantics thing
   ... i wanted to define what is the different between an open
   and a closed / proprietary standard
   ... a closed is a subset of ppl which don't want to let know
   the world what it is
   ... an open standard that should be open, a msg should be given
   to every single entity in the world
   ... and this is what the VC system is about
   ... to allow the verifier to know what they are getting

   jonathan_holt: one concern..
   ... lack of semantics interop
   ... to extend the argument that i see in the issue
   ... when switching to a new system, then we lost the semantics
   of the meaning of that

   <TallTed> Nothing in this spec says that every
   recipient/verifier must be able to fully understand every VC
   they receive. VCs that are not understood should simply be
   rejected. (A Russian driver's license need not be accepted by a
   US police officer. An *international* driver's license must be
   accepted by a US police officer. Both are meant to be VCs.)

   jonathan_holt: which would potentially cause miscommunication
   and implementers won't get it right

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to propose ways forward in addition to
   brentz -- non-normative is fine. and to mention that I'm not
   hearing disagreement on what we want the outcome to be... maybe

   manu: i won't to focus on what brent was stating
   ... i don't hear disagreement with each other
   ... i am hearing agreement that we all want to support implicit
   typing
   ... but stop mandating it

   <brentz> +1

   manu: strong typing is good but we also understand that there
   are many other ways for typing
   ... it feels that we can write some text that we all agree to
   which is non normative
   ... which does not make a subst change to the spec
   ... and if we can get to that then i hope we won't see any
   formal objections
   ... i want to find out the text which everyone is happy to live
   with
   ... at the same time we need to input to the spec, especially
   for ppl outside of the group
   ... remember we work with a 12 days delta until the end of our
   charta
   ... that is why my suggestion is to move all these discussions
   to the implemention guide
   ... this will allow us to get the specification / language
   right
   ... the other approach would be
   ... here is one option
   ... option 1
   ... we rip everything from spec out, brent's, ted's, david's
   and leave it as it is
   ... understanding that ppl would say it is vague
   ... option 2:
   ... we add one or two sentences there which is essentially what
   brent and ted added
   ... essentially saying that implicit typing is ok
   ... and refer to the implemention guide, put the text in the
   implementation guide
   ... option 3:
   ... make a normative change

   <brentz> -1 to option 3

   manu: and wrap that in with the other CR
   ... personally, i feel that is a bad thing to do

   <dlongley> -1 to option 3

   manu: but it is an option

   <burn> -1 to option 3

   <Zakim> TallTed, you wanted to say the above

   TallTed: an open standard / spec does not mean that everyone
   understands everything
   ... there a lot of specs that perfectly for private use

   <brentz> +1

   TallTed: one example, a russian driver's license does not need
   to be accepted by US police officer
   ... an international should
   ... both are in the world of VCs
   ... they are not meant to be understood by everyone
   ... no explicit agreement between a russian dmv and a us police
   officer
   ... explicit text should make it clear what was the intention
   of the original text
   ... that allows more easy entry into the space
   ... but it should not be forced that way because it prevents
   flexibility
   ... impl guide can also say that these are the hazards of doing
   it in this way

   <Zakim> burn, you wanted to admin interrupt

   TallTed: verifier should define the policy which should be
   discussed in the impl guide

   <gannan> scribenick: gannan

   DavidC: in response to the russian's driver's license, I agree,
   that's what I'm arguing for...

   <TallTed> he doesn't know it's a russian driver's license! he
   knows it's a laminated paper with an unfamiliar alphabet on it!

   DavidC: I would like to come back to X.509 and they worked out
   that anyone can have a certificate and know what to do with it
   ... one can accept anything you don't understand
   ... because the issuer says you don't have to understand it

   <burn> Agree with Ted. Don't need to know everything you
   receive, just whether it is not something you recognize

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask DavidC which one of these
   options he could live with?

   manu: I want to focus...
   ... one of the focus of these discussions is we get into design
   philosophy
   ... we may end up not getting to a resolution
   ... I suggested three options
   ... I'm requesting other options others we may take
   ... which option can we live with
   ... option 1, set back to what we had before to CR
   ... option 2, add sentences to the implementation guide

   <ken> +1 to option 2

   <DavidC> option 1.5

   manu: option 3, a substantive change

   <burn> -1 to option 3, it will bikeshed

   DavidC: we can do a option 1.5 where we can add one sentence to
   the original CR pointing to the implementation guide

   manu: I would be happy if we did that as well
   ... David would you mind typing the proposal so we can agree
   with what you're okay
   ... with

   <manu> PROPOSAL: The Working Group has decided to revert to the
   text of the March 19 CR, and in addition we add a sentence
   which can be wordsmithed later, but the intention is to say
   "typing is complex so we refer readers to the implementation
   guide which contains more details.

   <Zakim> jonathan_holt, you wanted to ask about how to implement
   issuers policies outside of implementation guide

   burn: Before asking for approval, any questions?

   <TallTed> manu - please be explicit about the section/paragraph
   being reverted

   jonathan_holt: going back to what Ted was asking about, how
   would these policies be managed?

   TallTed: these are not issuer policies, these are verifier
   policies

   jonathan_holt: how do the verifiers know these policies

   <burn> Ted has a good point that the proposal needs to be clear
   that we are not reverting everything in the doc to March 19,
   just some specific text

   TallTed: The issuer just issues this thing, and here's the
   proof. The verifier verifies the proof and whether or not I
   accept this thing
   ... it's the verifier judgement call

   <Zakim> manu, you wanted to get this proposal straw polled

   TallTed: out of band communication may happen but it is not a
   part of the verifiable credential data model

   manu: there has been a modification to the proposal

   <manu> PROPOSAL: The Working Group has decided to revert the
   type section related to implicit typing to the text of the
   March 19 Candidate Recommendation, and in addition we add a
   sentence which can be wordsmithed later, but the intention is
   to say "typing is complex so we refer readers to the
   implementation guide which contains more details".

   <gannan> +1

   <DavidC> +1

   <manu> +1

   <TallTed> +1

   <dlongley> +1

   <burn> +1

   <brentz> +1

   <ken> +1

   <dmitriz> +1

   <tzviya> +1

   <TallTed> "CR#1 of Marhc 2019" would be sufficient

   <bigbluehat> +1

   <jonathan_holt> +1

   <burn> +1

   RESOLUTION: The Working Group has decided to revert the type
   section related to implicit typing to the text of the March 28
   2019 Candidate Recommendation, and in addition we add a
   sentence which can be wordsmithed later, but the intention is
   to say "typing is complex so we refer readers to the
   implementation guide which contains more details".

   manu: does this remove your objection david?

   DavidC: yes it does, thank you

   manu: we will chase down the iat and ??? with the director

   <DavidC> YIPPPEEEE

   manu: I know of no other things blocking us from PR

   burn: we will need a PR for the specific text for the
   implicit/explicit typing
   ... if we can go to the March 28th sentence on this call, we
   can accelerate this process

   manu: Where would you like the text to be?

   DavidC: We could add a separate note or add it to the existing
   note?

   manu: I suggest we put it in a separate note as one refers to
   type in JSON-LD and the other type will refer to it from an
   information science perspectinge

   burn: it would be great if we could close this, in this call

   <DavidC> haha

   DavidC: I would rather say that it's complex, if you could say
   "associated types" is complex

   <ken> +1

   <TallTed> "data, implementers" -> "data. Implementers"

   DavidC: That is excellent

   <manu> Suggested text is: The type system used in the data
   model described in this specification allows for multiple ways
   to associate types with data, implementers and authors are
   urged to read the section on typing in the Verifiable
   Credentials Implementation Guide.

   <Zakim> brentz, you wanted to point out there may be other
   changes to the type section not related to this issue

   manu: let's wordsmith in the PR

   <dlongley> +1

   <dlongley> (+1 to that suggested text)

   brentz: scanning the text in the CR to what exists now, there
   are other changes that were put in from previous discussions
   that are not related to our current discussion

   <manu> +1

   <burn> +1 to suggested text

   <DavidC> +1

   <tzviya> +1 to suggested text

   manu: we will not revert those changes

   <stonematt> +1 to suggested text

   <bigbluehat> +1

   <ken> +1 to suggested text

   <brentz> +1

   <oliver> +1

   <gannan> +1 to suggested text

   <TallTed> +1 to suggested text modulo sentence break

   burn: I see agreement to create the PR with that
   ... manu will write the PR for the iat and ???

   manu: this is an editorial change and we don't need to wait
   until next week
   ... I will work hard to get a PR and CR ready so we can
   immediately schedule a transition

   burn: out of those three reviews and at least review from
   DavidC

   manu: of course

   <DavidC> thank you

   burn: as far as steps go, what you describe sounds like the
   right thing to do
   ... I would like to have a vote to go to CR
   ... let's plan to do that next Tuesday
   ... I don't see any reason and get a response from the
   director, I see no reason why we can't vote next week to
   publish a document

   <TallTed> Can email a call-to-vote-by-W3-poll based on text as
   of <date>. *Do* email a "we will vote on Tuesday" in any acse.

   burn: anyone see a reason why we can't?

   <DavidC> +1 TallTed

   burn: I will send an email out

   <oliver> +1

   DavidC: Ted raised the issue that I raised, could we do an
   email vote so we can proceed before Tuesday

   burn: not comfortable with doing an email vote...
   ... we have not been doing an email vote
   ... we would need to have at least a 7 day warning
   ... I will send an email today warning that there may be a vote
   next Tuesday

   kaz: I'm just wondering when you want to send the transition
   request

   burn: It depends on the response from the director
   ... we had been talking about an early August date
   ... if it's a CR we want to go as early as possible
   ... we can't formalize this today
   ... with respect to other issues and PRs
   ... issue #222
   ... we are waiting one of the implementation guide issues to be
   complete
   ... once that is complete, we can close

   brentz: the implementation guide PR you are referring to is
   ready for review

   burn: we can close this main issue once brent's PR is pulled in

   <burn> [14]https://github.com/w3c/vc-imp-guide/pull/14

     [14] https://github.com/w3c/vc-imp-guide/pull/14

   burn: review this and then we can close the implementation
   guide issue and the spec issue
   ... I can review it as I looked at it before
   ... two approvals now
   ... issue #526

   <burn> [15]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/526

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/issues/526

   burn: this is complete

   <manu> [16]https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-data-model/

     [16] https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-data-model/

   <manu>
   [17]https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/CR-vc-data-model-20190328/

     [17] https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/CR-vc-data-model-20190328/

   manu: this link
   ([18]https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-data-model/) does
   not re-direct and
   ([19]https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/CR-vc-data-model-20190328/) is
   broken
   ... I'll fix it
   ... ideally we would have re-directs to the vc-data-model

     [18] https://www.w3.org/TR/verifiable-claims-data-model/)
     [19] https://www.w3.org/TR/2019/CR-vc-data-model-20190328/)

   burn: issue #681
   ... editorial and merged 2 days ago

   manu: correct

   burn: we can close this
   ... Ted had a suggested change

   manu: I may have missed it
   ... would you mind raising a PR for that

   <manu>
   [20]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/commit/d92ceaf801da67c
   c698fb80756130c75e04531cb

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/commit/d92ceaf801da67cc698fb80756130c75e04531cb

   manu: here's what Dan is talking about
   ... we should make that change

   TallTed: yes, I can make that a PR

   burn: that should allow us to close other issues
   ... the #667 issue the PR has not been merged yet

   manu: yes, I did not merge that

   burn: would you like to wait until we have a status update from
   the director

   manu: almost definitely, we will merge it

   <TallTed> manu -
   [21]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/701

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/701

   manu: Ralph is gone, we should get in touch with him ASAP

   burn: do you have a plan for closing the three tracking issues?

   manu: we should close them but it seems we don't have a WG
   resolution for them

   <brentz> I fixed the merge conflicts in PR #668
   [22]https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/668/

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/vc-data-model/pull/668/

   burn: we were going to defer 632
   ... what he was asking for was out of scope for our charter
   ... we have two people on the queue

   kaz: I was wondering about the URL for the vc-data-model

   burn: can we handle that offline

   kaz: sure

   <Zakim> ken, you wanted to say implementation guide pr#14 has
   four reviews

   ken: just wanted to say that there were four reviews for PR#14,
   so we can merge

   manu: I can merge

   burn: can you close the corresponding issue brent?

   brentz: sure

   burn: can we say that it reflects architectural decisions made
   by the WG in regards to #633 and #634
   ... are there any questions about the proposal?

   <manu> PROPOSAL: The Working Group has addressed all concerns
   outlined in issues #633 and #634 to the best of their ability,
   these are architectural decisions made by the group, and
   asserts that the specification reflects the consensus position
   of the Working Group and thus the issues should be closed.
   Tracking issue #632 is hereby deferred due to the nature of the
   request, which is to work on protocol which is specifically out
   of scope for the WG Charter.

   <TallTed> +1

   <manu> +1

   <dlongley> +1

   <ken> +1

   <burn> +1

   <brentz> +1

   <stonematt> #+1

   <DavidC> +1

   <bigbluehat> +1

   RESOLUTION: The Working Group has addressed all concerns
   outlined in issues #633 and #634 to the best of their ability,
   these are architectural decisions made by the group, and
   asserts that the specification reflects the consensus position
   of the Working Group and thus the issues should be closed.
   Tracking issue #632 is hereby deferred due to the nature of the
   request, which is to work on protocol which is specifically out
   of scope for the WG Charter.

   burn: not seeing any rejections, so resolved
   ... I will write that into those issues

   manu: for #682 we had a resolution

   burn: correct
   ... #222 is done
   ... we will be left with 3 non-deferred issues after this call

   manu: I'm not getting that
   ... just confirming that there is nothing the group needs to
   make a decision on

   burn: there's 688 and 691 which is related to the open issues
   ... we will try to close out just two of the issues except for
   the one referring to the link
   ... thank you everyone, this is a major step
   ... talk to you all next week

   <kaz> [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [23]The Working Group has decided to revert the type
       section related to implicit typing to the text of the March
       28 2019 Candidate Recommendation, and in addition we add a
       sentence which can be wordsmithed later, but the intention
       is to say "typing is complex so we refer readers to the
       implementation guide which contains more details".
    2. [24]The Working Group has addressed all concerns outlined
       in issues #633 and #634 to the best of their ability, these
       are architectural decisions made by the group, and asserts
       that the specification reflects the consensus position of
       the Working Group and thus the issues should be closed.
       Tracking issue #632 is hereby deferred due to the nature of
       the request, which is to work on protocol which is
       specifically out of scope for the WG Charter.

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Wednesday, 17 July 2019 07:22:12 UTC