Fwd: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2023-04-24

Hello all,

Below are the minutes and here’s the video for last week’s presentation by Brooke Lipsitz at ASU TLN: https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-education-2023-04-24.mp4 <https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-ccg-education-2023-04-24.mp4>

Best,

K

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: CCG Minutes Bot <minutes@w3c-ccg.org>
> Subject: [MINUTES] W3C CCG CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Call - 2023-04-24
> Date: May 2, 2023 at 4:57:39 PM EDT
> To: public-credentials@w3.org
> Resent-From: public-credentials@w3.org
> 
> Thanks to Our Robot Overlords for scribing this week!
> 
> The transcript for the call is now available here:
> 
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-24-vc-education/
> 
> Full text of the discussion follows for W3C archival purposes.
> Audio of the meeting is available at the following location:
> 
> https://w3c-ccg.github.io/meetings/2023-04-24-vc-education/audio.ogg
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> VC for Education Task Force Transcript for 2023-04-24
> 
> Agenda:
>  https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2023Apr/0006.html
> Topics:
>  1. IP Note
>  2. Call Notes
>  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
>  4. Main Topic: Brooke Lipitz from ASU Trusted Learner Network 
>    (TLN)
> Organizer:
>  Kerri Lemoie
> Scribe:
>  Our Robot Overlords
> Present:
>  Kerri Lemoie, Chandi Cumaranatunge, Chris Webber, Brooke Lipsitz, 
>  Eric Sembrat, Alan Davies, Jeff O - HumanOS, Stuart Freeman, Andy 
>  Griebel, Marty Reed, Joey, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) 
>  (OpenLinkSw.com), Greg Bernstein, Jim Goodell, Deb Everhart, 
>  Marianna Milkis, ASU Pocket, David Ward, Phil L (P1), Mahesh 
>  Balan - pocketcred.com, Kimberly Linson, David Chadwick, Nate 
>  Otto, Ryan Grant, Taylor (LEF), James Chartrand, David 
>  Baumgartner@smartEduWallet, Phil Barker, Jake Hirsch-Allen, 
>  Geun-Hyung, TimG, Naomi, Naomi Szekeres
> 
> <kerri_lemoie> Hello all - we'll get started in a couple of 
>  minutes
> Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Hey welcome to the Monday April 24th verifiable 
>  verify the credentials for Education task force today I would 
>  like to welcome Brooke Brooke I'm sorry I'm and then we actually 
>  said your last name I'm sorry Brooke lipsitz I saying that 
>  correctly brick is a here from ASU the learning that and trusted 
>  Learning Network so she's going to tell us about the work that 
>  they've been doing.
> Kerri Lemoie:   Doing there.
> 
> Topic: IP Note
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  Let me first so go through our proposed agenda and 
>  then we will get going let brick take it from there so our first 
>  thing is about IP notes if you've been on these calls before you 
>  have a you've heard this.
> Kerri Lemoie:  So any any contributions to the specifications at 
>  w3c require membership and full IP our agreements to be signed 
>  this is open Community College so it's not required to attend 
>  these calls but if you intend to do some some more work that is 
>  something that you should look into secondly for call notes Here 
>  in the chat.
> 
> Topic: Call Notes
> 
> Kerri Lemoie:  So all of the minutes for these calls and audio 
>  recording and actually also a video recording of anybody 
>  requested are all take place for this whole call and so note that 
>  we do that so that those who can't attend the call even those who 
>  are here and want to reference it later I'm have it available to 
>  them in a public setting.
> Kerri Lemoie:  So we used it see here on the left for our chat I 
>  think some folks might use IRC but primarily we used to see here 
>  and we use a cue system to to have conversations so if you like 
>  to kill yourself you can either hit the hand signal and the 
>  bottom low or hand dashboard of Duty or you could type key + to 
>  raise your hand or q- treasure hand just like I did in the chap.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay what do we start with introductions and 
>  reintroductions.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Since you are new today could I ask you to 
>  introduce yourself.
> 
> Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
> 
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Absolutely I'm Brooke lipsitz I'm the product 
>  manager of the trusted learner network with ASU Enterprise 
>  technology I work closely with Kate you have a Keeney who I'm 
>  sure you've seen before in this space and also partner with 
>  third-party developers and some of the people that are on the 
>  call and our architecture and advisory committee so we have a lot 
>  of collaboration in the space.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  and without the help of.
> <stuartf> IRC and matrix.org chat are bridged into the Jitsi chat
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Keep people in their insights we probably would 
>  not be at the stage of development were currently at and happy to 
>  be here and show you the work that we've done over the last 10 
>  months or so.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Awesome thank you brick anybody else that's new to 
>  the call today or somebody who like to reintroduce themselves 
>  before we get going.
> Kerri Lemoie:  When you see a cube minus in the chat that is the 
>  checking to see if anybody is it like you.
> Kerri Lemoie: Topics: Announcements & Reminders
> Kerri Lemoie:  Does anybody have any announcements or reminders 
>  that I'd like to tell the community about if so you can give 
>  yourselves up right now to do that.
> <kerri_lemoie> Upcoming CCG Meetings & Events: 
>  https://w3c-ccg.github.io/announcements/
> <brooke_lipsitz> 2023 TLN Unconference is 5/18! We'd love to have 
>  all of you join us in Phoenix!
> Kerri Lemoie:  Hey I also do not have any announcements or 
>  reminders although I could post this link here in case you want 
>  to know what is going on at the ccg this is where announcements 
>  are typically made and also in the mailing list this week was 
>  outside last week was the internet identity workshop and I 
>  suspect we'll start hearing some more about what happened there 
>  I'm excited to learn about that.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Okay then with that why don't we start with our 
>  main topic and brick thank you for being here again today I love 
>  you I have the pleasure of working with brick and others on this 
>  call on the architecture advisory committee and I really have a 
>  soft spot in my heart for this project I think they're doing some 
>  really great interesting work and thinking about verifiable 
>  credentials in a very different way from a network approach and I 
>  think I you'll find her what.
> Kerri Lemoie:   They're doing really interesting brick once you 
>  take it from here.
> Kerri Lemoie:  We can when you're done we can see if there any 
>  questions how about that.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Okay great let me just figure out that I want to 
>  make sure I can share my screen.
> 
> Topic: Main Topic: Brooke Lipitz from ASU Trusted Learner Network (TLN)
> 
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Can everyone see my screen.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: So I'm going to be running you through our lean 
>  tln interface I'm trying to do less and less slides the more I 
>  present just because I noticed there tends to be a difference so 
>  I figure I might as well just jump straight in so we've just 
>  rounded out our phase one development for the tln so less than a 
>  year ago we didn't have even the architecture in place.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  and that was something that we worked with our.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Visors during our 2022 tln on conference on some 
>  of the people on the call were actually a part of that meeting so 
>  shout out to Stuart and Roger Davies as well so we've really come 
>  a long way considering we had essentially nothing in place to 
>  then having a blueprint developing an alpha Tech stack 
>  establishing governance you.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Events like plugfest to to help guide some of our 
>  early design decisions and considerations and now we're at this 
>  place to where we're also having another development company help 
>  us can take into consideration institutional few and development 
>  the what I'm going to show you today is the learner view of the 
>  tln or and again this is still early development so I'm sure much 
>  of this might change over time.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  I'm but just.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: So the Crux of what we're doing essentially but 
>  all of this even though we're using certain Technologies and 
>  semantic standards all this is really about simplifying access to 
>  namely course credentials degree credentials that Learners have 
>  learned throughout their career our angle into this with regard 
>  to credit Mobility.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Fostering movement and reducing friction is that 
>  you know there's this firm belief that this is a lifelong journey 
>  and the more we can do to remove barriers and in the Learner 
>  Journey the better it is for obviously the learner as well as the 
>  institution and facilitating this movement it's not just a 
>  transcript for you that can hold students back but even leans.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  she added with an account so we've.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Trying to Envision other ways to essentially give 
>  Learners access to the records that they've learned ideally from 
>  a single source to be able to share out and again he's that 
>  movement regardless of what their status is at a university 
>  financially so to speak verifiable credentials are one way of 
>  working around that in the space so that's a big part of why 
>  we've been talking with out with all of you throughout.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  out four different considerations.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: So where we're at today is we have a lien UI and 
>  a back end for this and for calls in particular to be made to the 
>  tln so we've just envisioned what it would look like for a 
>  learner to manage their credentials and actually based on some of 
>  what we've experienced there's still some design considerations 
>  that we are taking into consideration for the beginning stages of 
>  this because when we initially set this up it was designed to 
>  work.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  work with a wallet so you'd come and bring your 
>  own wallet and that.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Be utilizing for identification purposes however 
>  that's proven to have certain barriers in and of itself and so 
>  what are you discussing is ways to make that easier assuming that 
>  you know having to come with another Identity or another set of 
>  credentials might be a barrier for a portion of the Learners that 
>  would be using this platform so again there there's always 
>  something in progress that we have to consider or pivot to make a 
>  change for.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Jin the tln right now and seeing a learner coming 
>  to use the service we expect it to be very simple so this is a 
>  place that more often than not you'll probably be guided to you 
>  by another application that needs verification of your records 
>  and the idea would be a learner would be coming to the talent to 
>  be able to access credentials from multiple institutions in one 
>  single place in this particular view I have two institutions.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  I have ASU and also namely.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Beta Community College where I've earned 
>  credentials in the particular use case example that I give I 
>  talked about how I might want to take an internship in DC and so 
>  there's relevant coursework that they need to see in order to 
>  ensure that I've met their eligibility criteria namely that I've 
>  earned an associate's degree and then I have some relevant 
>  history classes to prove that I'm on that track for example so 
>  selecting.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  credentials in the TL.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: I don't have to share everything I have the 
>  option to bundle my credentials for sharing or expert them 
>  directly to a wallet so if I created a bundle specifically for DC 
>  internship.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: I can do just that and again it gives me the 
>  ability to change how I share or who I share with or I can even 
>  just delete the bundle that I have in place so if in this case I 
>  want to add gamma Tech University to institutions that I'm 
>  sharing this with I can do that as well.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: The inferior the ideal would be to have multiple 
>  institutions participating in the tln already available to the 
>  learner to help make this process easier but that is something 
>  that we're brainstorming and figuring out how best to draw in 
>  various institutions for this purpose so that's a big part of 
>  this as well to Learners would have the ability to change their.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  consent at any.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Again this is very learner Centric learner first 
>  that we're designing and developing for and we also have a 
>  companying services that we plan for constituents of the tln to 
>  work with namely another credit Mobility tool that we have in 
>  place which is interactive degree planner that's currently in 
>  development right now but the idea is that a learner could share 
>  credentials that they've earned to.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  institutions to help them plan.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Future directory with regards to earning a 
>  degree.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: This is all still early stages so to speak and 
>  that's the bulk of what I have to show off from a demo 
>  perspective we have Hi-Fi mock-ups that we're working on for our 
>  institutional development but that is that development likely 
>  won't be ready until middle of June to be able to show off so 
>  we're really excited about that.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  that as well.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: The yeah the the demo itself of the Chillin is 
>  fairly simplistic Roger Stewart if there's anything that you 
>  would like to add based on the work you've done on the a AC to 
>  speak to some of this by all means.
> <phil_l_(p1)> What does 'bundling' mean vs. export to a wallet?  
>  The latter seems self-explanatory pushing credentials to a wallet 
>  for sending from there, I assume.
> <kerri_lemoie> Stuart speaking
> Stuart Freeman:  Sure I think this is a really interesting and 
>  cool project and obviously has a lot of.
> Stuart Freeman:  Good cutting from it with the the ability for 
>  the user to sort of be self Sovereign I think the challenge that 
>  we're going to face is you know adoption getting people at the 
>  institutions to understand.
> Stuart Freeman:  Now this is actually still you know private 
>  until the user opens things up.
> Stuart Freeman:  And just yeah the the ability to.
> Stuart Freeman:  Run their own infrastructure versus having a 
>  contract from want to do it and how we get everyone interoperable 
>  I think that's the.
> Stuart Freeman:  Going forward at this point.
> <roger_davies> Phil, the bundling allows for curation inside the 
>  TLN without having to pull and mediate through a wallet (when all 
>  participants are members).
> <kerri_lemoie> Will call on you next, @nate
> Brooke_Lipsitz: And Phil I saw your question about bundling 
>  bundling is another way of grouping credential so having the 
>  ability to pick and choose and then create a bundle oh you know 
>  or if in the case you're not using a wallet to be able to export 
>  that grouping of credentials in this space so essentially 
>  bundling could be thought of as creating unique.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  comprehensive learner records that.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: It was a collection of records that you're 
>  sharing in a cluster so to speak I don't know if that helps.
> <phil_l_(p1)> As a VP or ?
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Explain the usage of the bundling feature not but 
>  also open to any feedback on that as well too.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Is the VC is that what you're asking Phil.
> <nate_otto_(he/him)> So is the bundle a ClrCredential compliant 
>  with CLR 2.0?
> Phil_L_(P1): No as a verifiable presentation as opposed to a VC.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: That's a great question.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I don't think that's been figured out yet.
> Phil_L_(P1): So is the intention that this will be a bundle that 
>  is sent via email from the platform or it's just not clear yet.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: That yeah that's not clear yet either how do we 
>  how do we send this to a third party if not through a wallet so 
>  that's something we still need to consider as well too.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> the way it looked to me, the 
>  bundle is just a convenience inside the platform
> Brooke_Lipsitz: We know we can issue is VCS we have that capacity 
>  but again it is a good question as far as how are we exporting 
>  this and to into where if it's outside of the TL on.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I'm going to call Arnie made out of who has a 
>  question about about the universities that are participating Nate 
>  you have the floor.
> <phil_l_(p1)> @Deb that's what I inferred by wanted more clarity
> Nate_Otto_(he/him): Thanks looks exciting to see this application 
>  coming here I had a question about the sharing two institutions 
>  screen that you briefly showed wondering how the institutions get 
>  placed into that list of options that someone could share to and 
>  then what actually happens when you select to share to a 
>  particular Institution.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: So ideally these are institutions that want to be 
>  a part of the tln they've been vetted we've determined that they 
>  met some degree of issuance quality there's been some Wedding by 
>  the governing body so this is still in Pilot as well too is 
>  figuring out what that process looks like as far as options for 
>  sharing learner would be able to just grant TL.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  then access in.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Any institution on the teal on could have access 
>  to their credentials also change specifically to have select 
>  institutions access their credentials like maybe if I am only 
>  interested in sharing between Arizona State and beta Community 
>  College and the gamma Tech is opposed to UT Austin and Georgia 
>  Tech I want to want to manage those permissions differently or 
>  being able to set them so we're their private.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  to me then it's not discoverable to any.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: In the tln except for the issuing institution I 
>  should say so the by default if an institution is issued credits 
>  to then they do have access to the credentials they've issued to 
>  you but they wouldn't be able to see other credentials on the 
>  network associated with you without your there your explicit 
>  permission.
> Nate_Otto_(he/him): So it sounds like it's a different user who 
>  is authenticated to the same domain who then gets to see the 
>  thing is there any transfer of data from one instance of an 
>  application to outside of the application to another one that was 
>  part of this sharing.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: There could be through my services and so and 
>  just the key would be notifying the learner that when you're when 
>  you start to share outside of the tln that access could be 
>  persistent so just being mindful of that even with interactive 
>  degree planner for example you know once you're sharing outside 
>  of the network.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Bearing in mind there's less control over what 
>  you share it because again each application you share with is 
>  going to have their own terms of services on how they utilize 
>  their data so I think the key for us is just making sure that 
>  we're very clear on to the learner or the end-user how their data 
>  could be used if we have a designated third-party application and 
>  place that they could share out too.
> Nate_Otto_(he/him): Cool thanks for the info just since I have to 
>  have the mic one more follow-up do you have any like API 
>  documentation or a description of what this connection to these 
>  other services entails.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: That's a great question I could follow up with my 
>  developer I don't I don't know that they have any explicit 
>  documentation but that's something that we should probably be 
>  making available shortly for people to reference especially if we 
>  plan to utilize other applications in the future it's something 
>  that we definitely need to have in place if we don't currently 
>  but I'll check with my developer to see if we have anything on 
>  our GitHub for example.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Nick my hash from pocket Krabs you have 
>  the floor.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Thank you very nice to see right 
>  here I'm an alumnus of ASU so I'm excited someday too maybe even 
>  retrieve my 30-year old records through this method so true it is 
>  wonderful just had a couple of questions first one is I presume 
>  this is conformant to open badges 3.0 is that a correct 
>  statement.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com:  in terms of standards as.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: All verifiable credential 
>  standards that you use.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Yes well for plugfest to we had to aligned the 
>  open badge standard but that is something that we want to commit 
>  to as well as to maintaining that data is still a big part of 
>  this so we're figuring out is how data is ingested and also 
>  shared because not just open badge but we also want to be able to 
>  export into other formats as well too and so that's a big.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  big part of this but yes opened by open badge.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Those formats that we plan to have criteria 
>  shared in that format.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: So far another question kind of 
>  related is how do you identify the subject today you know so this 
>  is kind of like you said and you know it's not like you know the 
>  classic example that you see where somebody comes in with their 
>  wallet and they can give you a did and so on and so forth so you 
>  would have to identify the subject to the or the student here 
>  right how do you identify this tool subject within the.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com:  the verifiable credential in this 
>  in this.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Doing right now.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: So it's interesting that you say that because we 
>  actually had it set up to do that using a wallet and a did for 
>  for the demo example that I have I was using the various wallet 
>  specifically however just by using and again this varus is great 
>  so it's nothing on the various wallet but the barriers in demoing 
>  if they're if something's going wrong with the varus wallet have 
>  all indicated that we need to have some other form of.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  identity management for a learner to access.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Because we don't want barriers to accessing your 
>  wallet to impact your access to the tln but at the same time 
>  there's a difference of opinion on whether or not the teal and 
>  should be managing you know their own created accounts for 
>  example or something those along those lines so that's something 
>  we still have to reconcile so as of this point you can use a did 
>  from a wallet to connect and then beyond that like when I 
>  validate different.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  tutions are ASU it's it's built into.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: So so if I if I were to reset this and wanted to 
>  connect to Arizona State University and actually prompts me to 
>  enter in My ASU credentials because it's connecting and 
>  validating that way to be even pull up my Arizona State 
>  credentials just really hard to show once it caches that 
>  information unfortunately so when connecting the various 
>  institutions were hoping to still utilize SSO and oid see but 
>  there is something that we still need to reconcile at the out.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  outset which is what is.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: The main source for someone connecting to the tln 
>  which we haven't fully reconciled but we're leaning to the place 
>  of someone needs to have another way to connect Beyond a wallet 
>  and if so what would that look like.
> <roger_davies> Phil, yes the whole structure is available through 
>  signed queries using GraphQL and a couple of other formats 
>  (Sparkle, a SQL adjacent query stucture etc).  We haven't 
>  formalized the standards yet.  As Brooke indicated we're hoping 
>  to support a few output formats transparently (Open Badge 3, CLR 
>  2 etc).
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Yeah and so that's to connect to 
>  tln but what about what's in the verifiable credential itself so 
>  if I went in and say downloaded or exported my credential what 
>  would it say in the subject field would it give my ASU ID or 
>  would it give my email or date of birth or name I was curious how 
>  you kind of solve that problem especially in the absence of a 
>  wallet right.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: That's a great question and I don't think we've 
>  gotten that far we did just a minimum viable criteria for 
>  plugfest to and Carrie can you speak to this with we're any of 
>  those criteria in the VC that we issued or what were the four 
>  main criteria to issue is an open badge that we needed.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Right forever plexus to we did I had to be no 
>  match 3.0 and basically we were just using a decentralised 
>  identifiers to for the identity to keep it pretty simple for 
>  breakfast too.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: So if we connected with a wallet we could have 
>  used that decentralized identifier in the VC okay okay.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah that's true.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Yeah yeah you used a chappie to your connecting 
>  service yep.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Super just what sorry I just last 
>  thing is there any of this work visible as open source or do you 
>  plan to do it at some point in the future.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: It's were using all open source standards but 
>  yeah I mean ideally at a certain point we would like to have it 
>  available especially because we know to a degree degree 
>  institutions connecting with the tln are going to need access to 
>  relevant materials to do that especially if they're going to have 
>  different ways in which they need to manage their data or their 
>  networking configurations so as of right now I don't have.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  anything publicly.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Again that's just based on the stage that we're 
>  at since we're still in a prototype stage but as we get further 
>  along I'm I'm I'm confident that there will be portions of this 
>  that will be publicly available to review.
> Mahesh_Balan_-_pocketcred.com: Thank you Brooke and Kay.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you Deb Everhart from Credential Engine has 
>  the floor
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Hi thanks I'm great to see this 
>  thank you I think you know your point earlier about adoption is 
>  always as always a challenge but I think we can support adoption 
>  together in terms of the data structure so if the data structure 
>  inside the system and also have a data is moving between systems 
>  is using CDL think that will bring in different institutions.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  tuitions and even state.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Have a lot of data already in 
>  CTL and make it more useful and the just a comment and then a 
>  question about the you know like adding up your credits and 
>  sharing them with other institutions I assume that those are 
>  currently based on existing articulation agreement so I'll let 
>  you comment on that but also just point out that CTL also 
>  provides a data structure for transfer.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  values so that it.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Not only those that are already 
>  known to the system but that could be pulled in from other 
>  sources in sitio.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> CTDL transfer value 
>  https://credreg.net/ctdl/handbook#transfervalue
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Really great feedback and I definitely appreciate 
>  that Insight with regard to see TDL interestingly enough this 
>  credit calculator feature this was something that our developer 
>  generated but it did pose a problem for us and that.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Institutions measure or determine credits 
>  differently so this is probably not going to be a feasible 
>  service but what he was trying to show off was how you could 
>  utilize the simple Lambda function within the tln to do some of 
>  the work for you without having to take data outside of the tln 
>  meaning like that might be an option at a future date granted 
>  from our perspective that's probably not going to.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  see how the tln is going to function.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Primarily because we're not trying to supplant 
>  what any other dedicated service could be doing for the learner 
>  and especially with more sophistication or taking in 
>  consideration articulation agreements being like that's this is 
>  not the main purpose of the tln so I appreciate that call out 
>  because this this is something that we probably should update 
>  because again it's going to be confusing for people who know more 
>  in depth about that.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  it what's more applicable is probably this 
>  Interactive.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Enter path but again that's really just focusing 
>  on sharing your credentials with the service like interactive 
>  degree planner so this is really just giving the ability to share 
>  with that service that.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Is sophisticated to be able to do that or has 
>  those articulation agreements or has a stronger understanding of 
>  how FERPA works for example so so if this if this piece threw you 
>  off we are aware that this is probably not not going to stay but 
>  really good observation and call out for sure.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Well certainly all three of 
>  these are our valuable services but also all very complex so 
>  anything we can do to help normalize the data infrastructure for 
>  that were happy to be engaged to just let us know.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Thank you so much Debbie really appreciate the 
>  feedback.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Awesome Phil Barker you have the floor.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: I think anything that eases the lift is something 
>  that we're interested in I know we've talked about pesky at a 
>  certain point as well too oh Roger feel free to speak up 
>  specifically regarding this I see your hand raised.
> Alan Davies:  Yeah so we've actually looked at pesky little bit 
>  one of the reasons we've looked at it is because many of the 
>  institutional student Information Systems already have some 
>  mechanism to support pasch so we thought just like you identified 
>  it would be an easy way and easy format for institutions to 
>  generate transcript like data into for us to consume that work 
>  certainly hasn't been completed that it is one of the things we 
>  have.
> Alan Davies:   Playing around with a.
> Alan Davies:  Aspiration of the goal is to make onboarding 
>  institutions and their data as streamlined as possible and we're 
>  you know we're pursuing a lot of different Avenues to try to make 
>  that easier including some you know AI tricks you know there's 
>  more than one attempt being made but pass could certainly one of 
>  the things we've looked into largely because a couple of the 
>  institutions who are participating very actively.
> Alan Davies:  Hurting past credentials.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you feeling Roger Mariana from ASU pocket 
>  you have the floor.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Hello thank you hi Brooke I just 
>  realized that we were you know kind of in parallel on AC 
>  Enterprise technology side of things and I was just curious 
>  Brooke to hear your thoughts on CLR format as you talk about 
>  bundling and that seems to be one of the use cases and I know I 
>  get asked that a lot of whether or not as you walk it will 
>  support ov3 nclr and I know you already are supporting of e3 so 
>  wanted to ask about CLR.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket:  and also about case standards.
> <phil_l_(p1)> are you talking about CLRv2?
> <marianna_milkis,_asu_pocket> Yes, thanks Phil
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah ideally we would support CL are some of the 
>  logic was once we need once we can guarantee that we're 
>  supporting open badge three that essentially paves the way for us 
>  to be compatible with CLR but the trickiest part with the data is 
>  even just figuring out the best way to map even our own data just 
>  how we utilize it and Raj.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  your Davies can speak more to.
> <roger_davies> Yeah, Badge 3, CLR 2
> Brooke_Lipsitz: To just the goofy nature in which we package our 
>  own data for transcripts has unique so it's not just a matter of 
>  using PeopleSoft language or Banner it's you know what 
>  anticipating how instapage how institutions are using data 
>  themselves as well to like how much of a.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: How much heavy lifting are we going to have to do 
>  upfront with institutions to be able to.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Ingest their data for example we're hoping that 
>  maybe there are some barriers we can break down at the outset but 
>  we also want to make sure that institutions can bring their own 
>  data and that's not going to be a problem but in and of itself we 
>  have our own as I'm sure you can relate to Mariana with data with 
>  pocket as well too it's just it's interesting how we.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  are concatenated.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: For example and it looks like it's one particular 
>  record that we're pulling from but it might be a few different 
>  ones for example so I hope that answered the first part of your 
>  question then the second I'm sorry that Mariana the second part 
>  of your question was.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Just around K standards and yeah I 
>  mean it answers it's kind of similar to how we feel but I do 
>  think that there is a benefit to eventually driving towards just 
>  like we're talking about normalizing all the all the data 
>  structures kind of driving towards compatibility with that 
>  because the registrar's office at the registrar's admin a crowd 
>  has approved still ours for kind of a standard for.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Sharing College transfer transcripts 
>  so it's feels like an incentive to sink in that direction but 
>  yeah they had that question was about the case standards.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: You know we should probably compare notes about 
>  it offline because I'm sure Mariana your team is much more tapped 
>  in as far as what Michael Crow is recommending or anticipating I 
>  don't I don't know that we've gotten that far to be quite honest 
>  so that's something that we definitely should be considering.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Happy to definitely talk with you more offline as 
>  well to based on what you've learned up until this point.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Sure sounds good yeah and I'm just 
>  to be clear I don't know for sure if that is being adopted at ASU 
>  at the moment I just know that like Tennessee Board of regions 
>  and Alabama and bunch of other places have actually started 
>  implementing that so you know could that but yeah let's chat.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah yeah that would be great you know and some 
>  of the design some of what we've built into this design is 
>  aspirational in and of itself like we're using rdf and we're 
>  making some assumptions about rdf framework and its ability to 
>  into it and infer that we haven't really been able to test or 
>  prove out yet so that will be interesting to see.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  so as we start.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Map to different data schemas and seeing how the 
>  system starts to recognize new data for example but it is a again 
>  a big guess up until we can get to the point where we're actually 
>  testing it but data is a big part of this and something that you 
>  know we're still trying to get our head around the actual scope 
>  for our next release cycle as far as what our goals with regard 
>  to data what is achievable.
> Brooke_Lipsitz:  Al and what.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Should we be using to help us with this process.
> Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Yeah for sure.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Great thank you so long have the floor.
> Phil_L_(P1): Thanks I just in listening to the conversation it 
>  seems like it's probably useful to take a step back and and think 
>  through or at least discuss whether that in the data structures 
>  that you're talking about are for the purposes of internal 
>  processing and manipulation of the data within the network versus 
>  external communication and if it's for external communication 
>  whether it's to somebody or.
> Phil_L_(P1):  ization that has a secure pipe that you can.
> Phil_L_(P1): Can connect to versus someone that may not have that 
>  like an individual alumni or or student where the only other 
>  mechanism that you have for somebody like that is to provide the 
>  security through the API that you're using to talk to them with 
>  so a lot of the seems like you could parse this problem up a bit 
>  and and then apply the appropriate methods that are optimized for 
>  the eat.
> Phil_L_(P1):  each of those three sort of use cases.
> <deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> for external communication of 
>  the meaning of the credentials, include a link in the alignment 
>  field to metadata in CTDL in the Registry
> Phil_L_(P1): The form of the data for transport can be any number 
>  of things even in the VC world and wrapped by a VC as and then 
>  transported by a secure protocol like jappy here we see a pi or 
>  PID c4d for whatever is the most appropriate for the audience 
>  you're talking about whereas point-to-point Communications with 
>  other institutions is just a whole other thing which is where 
>  past can many of the.
> Phil_L_(P1):  organizations of that sort have been focused in the 
>  past.
> https://credentialengine.org/resources/how-to-align-digital-credentials-with-meaningful-ctdl-data/
> Phil_L_(P1): I just think it would be helpful to parse this a 
>  little bit and then think about the subsets of in approaches to 
>  those that might be useful to you in those contexts thanks.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Phil thank you so much that's very well put in in 
>  thoughtful and definitely something that we need to take into 
>  consideration so I really appreciate your feedback on that thank 
>  you.
> Kerri Lemoie:  I thank you that you have before.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Yeah so thanks Phil that's a 
>  great tee up and just you know one practical use of the data is 
>  is for the metadata that can be shared and to have that bnct DL 
>  so I think a really practical use case would be that when these 
>  credentials are going to be issued to people for use in a wallet 
>  and go outside the system that those credentials.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  ever form they take can use in 
>  a.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): I'm meant to link to data 
>  that's in CTL in the registry so that there is meaning beyond 
>  what is actually limited amount of data that's in the credential 
>  package itself so this is a pretty straightforward use case that 
>  has immediate value in terms of making the credentials that are 
>  issued to people easier to understand.
> <phil_l_(p1)> Leveraging linked data for lean transport!
> Brooke_Lipsitz: How complex is that to set up with CT DL.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Not not at all so like when you 
>  showed that list of courses and credentials those are in some 
>  sort of structured data because they're structured in your system 
>  so either from The Source or from tln you could take the basic 
>  even it doesn't even have to be a lot of fields of data but you 
>  can even just put that in a spreadsheet it doesn't require an API 
>  integration to.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  push it to the registry.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): Then when you issue a 
>  credential for any one of those courses or credentials to include 
>  in the alignment a link to that data in the registry so when you 
>  first set that up the data that the data that's in the registry 
>  might be slim but then you can add to it over time so you could 
>  have for example very valuable thing is to add the competencies 
>  to those credentials and courses and then it can grow over time.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine):  I'm do include transfer value 
>  Pathways whatever.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): You don't need to get into 
>  those more complex use cases to just provide a connection between 
>  the credential that's being issued and additional metadata does 
>  that make sense.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah that makes sense.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): We're happy we're happy to help 
>  with that and I put a link in the chat to a very short overview 
>  document on that topic that's applicable for any digital 
>  credentials.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Yeah thank you Deb really appreciate it.
> Deb_Everhart_(Credential_Engine): There's there's a ton of 
>  potential here so I'm just really happy to to see what are some 
>  of the some of the practical ways to enrich it from very 
>  beginning so.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Definitely appreciate and we're open to input 
>  across the board to especially because we're still so early in 
>  our development so any any ideas or any thoughts anyone wants to 
>  share even after the call I'm happy to learn more about so thank 
>  you.
> Kerri Lemoie:  It's great thank you everybody does anybody have 
>  any other questions or feedback or comments they like to give 
>  birth before we close today.
> <mahesh_balan_-_pocketcred.com> Thank you Brooke!
> <taylor_(lef)> Feel free to review/use anything from our docs 
>  here as well: https://docs.learncard.com/
> Kerri Lemoie:  But thank you so much for presenting this work I 
>  know folks have been curious about about what's been going on and 
>  it's great to see it and for that for everybody else to see it to 
>  you so thank you for being here today and walking us through it 
>  all and being open to all the feedback and suggestions that's 
>  great.
> Brooke_Lipsitz: Thank you very thank you very much and thank you 
>  for the opportunity I really appreciate it.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Thank you everybody thank you very much for being 
>  here I think next week we have an open Agenda so we will bring 
>  your topics bring your questions and then also if you are ever 
>  interested in presenting your project and the work you're doing 
>  just reach out and we'll be happy to get you in the calendar.
> Kerri Lemoie:  Everyone have a good week.
> 
>