Re: {minutes} TTWG Meeting 2019-01-10

Excellent. 😀

On Fri., 11 Jan. 2019, 8:37 am Gary Katsevman <me@gkatsev.com wrote:

> Thanks for confirming, Silvia!
>
> As I work through the tests and gain more understanding, my plan was to
> open issues against the browsers with the failing tests.
>
> Gary.
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 4:32 PM Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> FYI: the WebVTT tests were written pretty much to the latest version of
>> the spec. The were no substantial changes made after the test writing -
>> Apple funded the test creation. So the coverage is pretty good.
>>
>> It will be good to point out to the browsers which areas they are coming
>> short in!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Silvia.
>>
>> On Fri., 11 Jan. 2019, 4:29 am Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for attending today’s TTWG meeting, and to Cyril for
>>> scribing. Minutes can be found in HTML format at
>>> https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-minutes.html
>>>
>>> In text format:
>>>
>>>    [1]W3C
>>>
>>>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>>>
>>>                 Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
>>>
>>> 10 Jan 2019
>>>
>>>    [2]Agenda
>>>
>>>       [2] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/11
>>>
>>>    See also: [3]IRC log
>>>
>>>       [3] https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-irc
>>>
>>> Attendees
>>>
>>>    Present
>>>           Nigel, Cyril, Andreas, Gary, Glenn, Pierre
>>>
>>>    Regrets
>>>
>>>    Chair
>>>           Nigel
>>>
>>>    Scribe
>>>           cyril, nigel
>>>
>>> Contents
>>>
>>>      * [4]Topics
>>>          1. [5]TTML Profile Registry
>>>          2. [6]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>>          3. [7]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/5
>>>             6
>>>          4. [8]TTWG Future Requirements
>>>          5. [9]Joint F2F meeting
>>>          6. [10]CSS actions review
>>>          7. [11]TTML2
>>>          8. [12]WebVTT
>>>      * [13]Summary of Action Items
>>>      * [14]Summary of Resolutions
>>>      __________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>    <cyril> scribe: cyril
>>>
>>>    nigel: no objection or addition to the agenda?
>>>    ... agenda is approved as posted
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: I started looking at the preliminary impl report and I
>>>    can give an overview
>>>
>>> TTML Profile Registry
>>>
>>>    nigel: there are 2 PR and one issue marked for agenda
>>>
>>>    <glenn> [15]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>>
>>>      [15] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>>
>>>    github: [16]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>>
>>>      [16] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>>
>>>    nigel: there is one particular comment that need discussion
>>>    ... It's about the IANA registration part
>>>    ... this PR adds text that says the document augments the
>>>    registration
>>>    ... but this document defines the MIME type and cannot augment
>>>    it
>>>
>>>    glenn: I looked at it a bit more and now agree with you
>>>    ... we can change without IANA approval afaik
>>>
>>>    nigel: afaik
>>>
>>>    glenn: then I will edit it and should be able to resolve that
>>>
>>>    nigel: is it worth going over any other part of this PR
>>>
>>>    glenn: no
>>>
>>>    nigel: then we'll continue the discussion about how we
>>>    reference other specs offline
>>>
>>>    summary: editor has a way forward to deal with review comments
>>>    on IANA registration
>>>
>>> [17]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>>
>>>      [17] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>>
>>>    github: [18]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>>
>>>      [18] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>>
>>>    nigel: this PR creates a JSON in the repository to make it
>>>    easier to view PR
>>>    ... it's enabled on all repositories of W3C but it needs this
>>>    file
>>>
>>>    glenn: I'll approve that, I don't know what previewing a PR
>>>    means
>>>
>>>    nigel: at the top of the PR, preview and diff links get added
>>>
>>>    glenn: I don't think this is enable in TTML2
>>>
>>>    nigel: it works for respec and bikeshed specs, not for more
>>>    complicated specs
>>>
>>>    SUMMARY: Glenn will approve and merge it
>>>
>>> [19]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>>
>>>      [19] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>>
>>>    github-bot:
>>>    [20]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>>
>>>      [20] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>>
>>>    <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try
>>>    'help'.
>>>
>>>    github-bot:
>>>    [21]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issue/56
>>>
>>>      [21] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issue/56
>>>
>>>    <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try
>>>    'help'.
>>>
>>>    github:
>>>    [22]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>>
>>>      [22] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>>
>>>    atai2: we need to double-check the reference
>>>
>>>    nigel: maybe the etx2 is wrong
>>>
>>>    atai2: it points to 3350
>>>    ... it's not wrong, designator and identifier is correct
>>>    ... what may need to be adjusted is the link to the
>>>    specification
>>>    ... but I need to double check it
>>>
>>>    nigel: in the current editor's draft, there are version links
>>>    to the 1-0 and 1-2 but there is no link to 1-1.
>>>    ... it could be my mistake or something is wrong in the EBU
>>>    specs
>>>
>>>    atai2: I think you are right
>>>    ... there should be EBU-TT 1.1
>>>
>>>    SUMMARY: Nigel will open a PR to modify ext2 to point to EBU-TT
>>>    1.1
>>>
>>> TTWG Future Requirements
>>>
>>>    nigel: we have nothing labelled for agenda in the issues
>>>    ... for the things I've raised I owe the group a bit more
>>>    details
>>>    ... I'll provide more until the next meeting
>>>    ... no one seems to want to add more now, action everybody to
>>>    continue reviewing the current issues and ask for details
>>>
>>> Joint F2F meeting
>>>
>>>    <nigel> [23]Meeting wiki page
>>>
>>>      [23] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2019
>>>
>>>    nigel: according to the wiki, we have 4 people listed as
>>>    attending
>>>    ... thank you andreas for the doodle for the dinner
>>>    ... thank you thierry for updating the wiki page
>>>    ... any admin questions?
>>>
>>>    cyril: I won't able to travel
>>>    ... will there be a way to join in
>>>
>>>    nigel: no problem in setting up a webex
>>>    ... Frans already set up of webex for the friday morning
>>>    ... I will set up one for the thursday meeting
>>>    ... I've given myself action 16
>>>    ... also I want to mention that the joint meeting with the EBU
>>>    timed text on the friday morning will discuss live
>>>    contributions
>>>    ... there is a proposal that 2 people will report on their
>>>    implementation experience: Matt Simpson and me
>>>    ... we shouldn't spend more than 30 min on these 2 slots
>>>    ... do people have things to contribute?
>>>    ... If you have any idea, please get in touch with me
>>>    ... the other slightly admin point is that we'll do it as a W3C
>>>    meeting in terms of IPR
>>>
>>>    glenn: on impl experience, are you limiting it to the live
>>>    scope?
>>>
>>>    nigel: it is specifically on live contributions
>>>
>>>    atai2: speaking as a EBU co-chair, we also want to discuss how
>>>    the EBU TT group and the W3C TT group can collaborate
>>>    ... we have most of the members in one room
>>>    ... we should discuss what should be done in w3c and what
>>>    should be done in ebu tt
>>>    ... what should moved to w3c if any
>>>    ... I want to make it one topic
>>>
>>>    cyril: I would also be interested in discussing what can be
>>>    done for the EBU features that are in IMSC and not in TTML2
>>>    ... the fact that IMSC1.1 is not a strict subset of TTML2
>>>    ... for example, discussing if copyright of EBU TT features
>>>    could be transfered to W3C
>>>
>>>    atai2: it would be good to discuss if the EBU TT group thinks
>>>    extension will be done in the future in EBU or should be done
>>>    in W3C
>>>
>>>    nigel: a slighlty broader point is that TTML is extensible but
>>>    what happens when an extension needs to be adopted more broadly
>>>    ... I would like to understand why any change is needed
>>>    ... it may not be the most elegant thing (several namespaces)
>>>    but it's not that bad
>>>    ... we need to motivate a change
>>>
>>>    cyril: there are 2 parts: one is the fact that we have multiple
>>>    namespaces but the first point is having one place to find the
>>>    specification
>>>
>>>    nigel: we also want to modularize
>>>
>>>    cyril: it's harder to implement a spec if you have to pull
>>>    sub-specs from different orgs
>>>
>>>    nigel: I can go ahead and edit the wiki for the agenda
>>>    ... anything else?
>>>    ... no
>>>
>>> CSS actions review
>>>
>>>    nigel: I don't think there is anything to discuss
>>>
>>> TTML2
>>>
>>>    glenn: just a clarification, you mentioned future editorial
>>>    changes
>>>    ... I'm distinguishing between new features and substantive
>>>    changes to existing features
>>>    ... the issues I've been filing recently come from my internal
>>>    list made during the finalization of the 1st edition
>>>    ... I have about a dozen more
>>>    ... hope to finish that before the meeting if we want to
>>>    discuss some of them
>>>
>>>    nigel: they are indeed editing tasks, not necessarily editorial
>>>
>>>    pal: on that TTML2 topic, we had discussed requiring test cases
>>>    to be submitted with tickets
>>>    ... we should stick to that
>>>
>>>    glenn: I don't recall that
>>>    ... this is not a bad idea
>>>
>>>    nigel: that would apply to the substantive changes
>>>    ... a test case would be very helpful
>>>
>>>    pal: it helps folks testing their implementation quickly
>>>
>>>    glenn: also important for when we need to move to PR
>>>
>>>    nigel: it also helps for the review of the spec
>>>
>>>    glenn: makes it more concrete
>>>
>>>    RESOLUTION: we reaffirm that we want to have test vectors for
>>>    substantive changes
>>>
>>> WebVTT
>>>
>>>    nigel: gkatsev wants to give an update
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: I've started looking a bit more
>>>    ... big initiative on wpt.fyi
>>>    ... has an interop section
>>>    ... shows you which test passes in 1, 2 or 3 browsers
>>>    ... for the things that can be tested automatically, I'll use
>>>    that
>>>
>>>    <nigel> [24]web-platform-tests dashboard for webvtt
>>>
>>>      [24] https://wpt.fyi/results/webvtt?label=master&label=stable&aligned
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: overall 80% of the features are implemented in 2 or
>>>    more browsers
>>>    ... there are some features for which I'm not sure
>>>    ... for those that won't pass, I'll discuss with Silvia
>>>    ... but 80% seems not as bas as I thought
>>>
>>>    cyril: what about the new features: regions, styles
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: safari 12.1 is supposed to support regions
>>>    ... VLC supports it
>>>    ... those 2 should qualify as implementation
>>>
>>>    nigel: can you clarify how you reached the number of 80%
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: I ignored rendering because they do not run
>>>    automatically
>>>    ... the value reported on wpt.fyi is wrong
>>>
>>>    atai
>>>
>>>    cyril
>>>
>>>    atai2: do you have an idea if the WPT fully covers the version
>>>    of WebVTT
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: I am not 100% sure but it seems the coverage is very
>>>    good
>>>    ... but we need to make sure it is before we can rely on WPT
>>>
>>>    atai2: I'm not sure when the tests in WPT were made
>>>    ... we should check if changes to the spec were made after the
>>>    tests were added to WPT
>>>
>>>    tmichel
>>>
>>>    tmichel: I am wondering about the coloring of the cells
>>>    ... light green vs yellow
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: I assumed the darker the green the higher the % of
>>>    passing tests
>>>    ... I think region is the most recent and has more risk
>>>
>>>    tmichel: you mentioned VLC as a pretty good candidate for
>>>    region support
>>>    ... how do we test that?
>>>
>>>    gkatsev: we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT
>>>    file in VLC and see how it work
>>>    ... we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT file
>>>    in VLC and see how it works
>>>
>>>    <nigel> scribe: nigel
>>>
>>> Summary of Action Items
>>>
>>> Summary of Resolutions
>>>
>>>     1. [25]we reaffirm that we want to have test vectors for
>>>        substantive changes
>>>
>>>    [End of minutes]
>>>      __________________________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>     Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
>>>     David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version 1.154 ([27]CVS log)
>>>     $Date: 2019/01/10 17:08:24 $
>>>
>>>      [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>>>      [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>

Received on Thursday, 10 January 2019 22:32:42 UTC