Re: {minutes} TTWG Meeting 2019-01-10

Thanks for confirming, Silvia!

As I work through the tests and gain more understanding, my plan was to
open issues against the browsers with the failing tests.

Gary.

On Thu, Jan 10, 2019 at 4:32 PM Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
wrote:

> FYI: the WebVTT tests were written pretty much to the latest version of
> the spec. The were no substantial changes made after the test writing -
> Apple funded the test creation. So the coverage is pretty good.
>
> It will be good to point out to the browsers which areas they are coming
> short in!
>
> Cheers,
> Silvia.
>
> On Fri., 11 Jan. 2019, 4:29 am Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk wrote:
>
>> Thanks all for attending today’s TTWG meeting, and to Cyril for scribing.
>> Minutes can be found in HTML format at
>> https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-minutes.html
>>
>> In text format:
>>
>>    [1]W3C
>>
>>       [1] http://www.w3.org/
>>
>>                 Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
>>
>> 10 Jan 2019
>>
>>    [2]Agenda
>>
>>       [2] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/11
>>
>>    See also: [3]IRC log
>>
>>       [3] https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-irc
>>
>> Attendees
>>
>>    Present
>>           Nigel, Cyril, Andreas, Gary, Glenn, Pierre
>>
>>    Regrets
>>
>>    Chair
>>           Nigel
>>
>>    Scribe
>>           cyril, nigel
>>
>> Contents
>>
>>      * [4]Topics
>>          1. [5]TTML Profile Registry
>>          2. [6]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>          3. [7]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/5
>>             6
>>          4. [8]TTWG Future Requirements
>>          5. [9]Joint F2F meeting
>>          6. [10]CSS actions review
>>          7. [11]TTML2
>>          8. [12]WebVTT
>>      * [13]Summary of Action Items
>>      * [14]Summary of Resolutions
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>    <cyril> scribe: cyril
>>
>>    nigel: no objection or addition to the agenda?
>>    ... agenda is approved as posted
>>
>>    gkatsev: I started looking at the preliminary impl report and I
>>    can give an overview
>>
>> TTML Profile Registry
>>
>>    nigel: there are 2 PR and one issue marked for agenda
>>
>>    <glenn> [15]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>
>>      [15] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>
>>    github: [16]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>
>>      [16] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55
>>
>>    nigel: there is one particular comment that need discussion
>>    ... It's about the IANA registration part
>>    ... this PR adds text that says the document augments the
>>    registration
>>    ... but this document defines the MIME type and cannot augment
>>    it
>>
>>    glenn: I looked at it a bit more and now agree with you
>>    ... we can change without IANA approval afaik
>>
>>    nigel: afaik
>>
>>    glenn: then I will edit it and should be able to resolve that
>>
>>    nigel: is it worth going over any other part of this PR
>>
>>    glenn: no
>>
>>    nigel: then we'll continue the discussion about how we
>>    reference other specs offline
>>
>>    summary: editor has a way forward to deal with review comments
>>    on IANA registration
>>
>> [17]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>
>>      [17] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>
>>    github: [18]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>
>>      [18] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57
>>
>>    nigel: this PR creates a JSON in the repository to make it
>>    easier to view PR
>>    ... it's enabled on all repositories of W3C but it needs this
>>    file
>>
>>    glenn: I'll approve that, I don't know what previewing a PR
>>    means
>>
>>    nigel: at the top of the PR, preview and diff links get added
>>
>>    glenn: I don't think this is enable in TTML2
>>
>>    nigel: it works for respec and bikeshed specs, not for more
>>    complicated specs
>>
>>    SUMMARY: Glenn will approve and merge it
>>
>> [19]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>
>>      [19] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>
>>    github-bot:
>>    [20]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>
>>      [20] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>
>>    <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try
>>    'help'.
>>
>>    github-bot:
>>    [21]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issue/56
>>
>>      [21] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issue/56
>>
>>    <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try
>>    'help'.
>>
>>    github:
>>    [22]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>
>>      [22] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56
>>
>>    atai2: we need to double-check the reference
>>
>>    nigel: maybe the etx2 is wrong
>>
>>    atai2: it points to 3350
>>    ... it's not wrong, designator and identifier is correct
>>    ... what may need to be adjusted is the link to the
>>    specification
>>    ... but I need to double check it
>>
>>    nigel: in the current editor's draft, there are version links
>>    to the 1-0 and 1-2 but there is no link to 1-1.
>>    ... it could be my mistake or something is wrong in the EBU
>>    specs
>>
>>    atai2: I think you are right
>>    ... there should be EBU-TT 1.1
>>
>>    SUMMARY: Nigel will open a PR to modify ext2 to point to EBU-TT
>>    1.1
>>
>> TTWG Future Requirements
>>
>>    nigel: we have nothing labelled for agenda in the issues
>>    ... for the things I've raised I owe the group a bit more
>>    details
>>    ... I'll provide more until the next meeting
>>    ... no one seems to want to add more now, action everybody to
>>    continue reviewing the current issues and ask for details
>>
>> Joint F2F meeting
>>
>>    <nigel> [23]Meeting wiki page
>>
>>      [23] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2019
>>
>>    nigel: according to the wiki, we have 4 people listed as
>>    attending
>>    ... thank you andreas for the doodle for the dinner
>>    ... thank you thierry for updating the wiki page
>>    ... any admin questions?
>>
>>    cyril: I won't able to travel
>>    ... will there be a way to join in
>>
>>    nigel: no problem in setting up a webex
>>    ... Frans already set up of webex for the friday morning
>>    ... I will set up one for the thursday meeting
>>    ... I've given myself action 16
>>    ... also I want to mention that the joint meeting with the EBU
>>    timed text on the friday morning will discuss live
>>    contributions
>>    ... there is a proposal that 2 people will report on their
>>    implementation experience: Matt Simpson and me
>>    ... we shouldn't spend more than 30 min on these 2 slots
>>    ... do people have things to contribute?
>>    ... If you have any idea, please get in touch with me
>>    ... the other slightly admin point is that we'll do it as a W3C
>>    meeting in terms of IPR
>>
>>    glenn: on impl experience, are you limiting it to the live
>>    scope?
>>
>>    nigel: it is specifically on live contributions
>>
>>    atai2: speaking as a EBU co-chair, we also want to discuss how
>>    the EBU TT group and the W3C TT group can collaborate
>>    ... we have most of the members in one room
>>    ... we should discuss what should be done in w3c and what
>>    should be done in ebu tt
>>    ... what should moved to w3c if any
>>    ... I want to make it one topic
>>
>>    cyril: I would also be interested in discussing what can be
>>    done for the EBU features that are in IMSC and not in TTML2
>>    ... the fact that IMSC1.1 is not a strict subset of TTML2
>>    ... for example, discussing if copyright of EBU TT features
>>    could be transfered to W3C
>>
>>    atai2: it would be good to discuss if the EBU TT group thinks
>>    extension will be done in the future in EBU or should be done
>>    in W3C
>>
>>    nigel: a slighlty broader point is that TTML is extensible but
>>    what happens when an extension needs to be adopted more broadly
>>    ... I would like to understand why any change is needed
>>    ... it may not be the most elegant thing (several namespaces)
>>    but it's not that bad
>>    ... we need to motivate a change
>>
>>    cyril: there are 2 parts: one is the fact that we have multiple
>>    namespaces but the first point is having one place to find the
>>    specification
>>
>>    nigel: we also want to modularize
>>
>>    cyril: it's harder to implement a spec if you have to pull
>>    sub-specs from different orgs
>>
>>    nigel: I can go ahead and edit the wiki for the agenda
>>    ... anything else?
>>    ... no
>>
>> CSS actions review
>>
>>    nigel: I don't think there is anything to discuss
>>
>> TTML2
>>
>>    glenn: just a clarification, you mentioned future editorial
>>    changes
>>    ... I'm distinguishing between new features and substantive
>>    changes to existing features
>>    ... the issues I've been filing recently come from my internal
>>    list made during the finalization of the 1st edition
>>    ... I have about a dozen more
>>    ... hope to finish that before the meeting if we want to
>>    discuss some of them
>>
>>    nigel: they are indeed editing tasks, not necessarily editorial
>>
>>    pal: on that TTML2 topic, we had discussed requiring test cases
>>    to be submitted with tickets
>>    ... we should stick to that
>>
>>    glenn: I don't recall that
>>    ... this is not a bad idea
>>
>>    nigel: that would apply to the substantive changes
>>    ... a test case would be very helpful
>>
>>    pal: it helps folks testing their implementation quickly
>>
>>    glenn: also important for when we need to move to PR
>>
>>    nigel: it also helps for the review of the spec
>>
>>    glenn: makes it more concrete
>>
>>    RESOLUTION: we reaffirm that we want to have test vectors for
>>    substantive changes
>>
>> WebVTT
>>
>>    nigel: gkatsev wants to give an update
>>
>>    gkatsev: I've started looking a bit more
>>    ... big initiative on wpt.fyi
>>    ... has an interop section
>>    ... shows you which test passes in 1, 2 or 3 browsers
>>    ... for the things that can be tested automatically, I'll use
>>    that
>>
>>    <nigel> [24]web-platform-tests dashboard for webvtt
>>
>>      [24] https://wpt.fyi/results/webvtt?label=master&label=stable&aligned
>>
>>    gkatsev: overall 80% of the features are implemented in 2 or
>>    more browsers
>>    ... there are some features for which I'm not sure
>>    ... for those that won't pass, I'll discuss with Silvia
>>    ... but 80% seems not as bas as I thought
>>
>>    cyril: what about the new features: regions, styles
>>
>>    gkatsev: safari 12.1 is supposed to support regions
>>    ... VLC supports it
>>    ... those 2 should qualify as implementation
>>
>>    nigel: can you clarify how you reached the number of 80%
>>
>>    gkatsev: I ignored rendering because they do not run
>>    automatically
>>    ... the value reported on wpt.fyi is wrong
>>
>>    atai
>>
>>    cyril
>>
>>    atai2: do you have an idea if the WPT fully covers the version
>>    of WebVTT
>>
>>    gkatsev: I am not 100% sure but it seems the coverage is very
>>    good
>>    ... but we need to make sure it is before we can rely on WPT
>>
>>    atai2: I'm not sure when the tests in WPT were made
>>    ... we should check if changes to the spec were made after the
>>    tests were added to WPT
>>
>>    tmichel
>>
>>    tmichel: I am wondering about the coloring of the cells
>>    ... light green vs yellow
>>
>>    gkatsev: I assumed the darker the green the higher the % of
>>    passing tests
>>    ... I think region is the most recent and has more risk
>>
>>    tmichel: you mentioned VLC as a pretty good candidate for
>>    region support
>>    ... how do we test that?
>>
>>    gkatsev: we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT
>>    file in VLC and see how it work
>>    ... we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT file
>>    in VLC and see how it works
>>
>>    <nigel> scribe: nigel
>>
>> Summary of Action Items
>>
>> Summary of Resolutions
>>
>>     1. [25]we reaffirm that we want to have test vectors for
>>        substantive changes
>>
>>    [End of minutes]
>>      __________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>     Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
>>     David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version 1.154 ([27]CVS log)
>>     $Date: 2019/01/10 17:08:24 $
>>
>>      [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>>      [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>>
>>
>>
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>

Received on Thursday, 10 January 2019 21:37:50 UTC