FW: [w3c/csswg-drafts] [css-text-4] text-transform: full-size-kana (#3143)

TTWG, this may be of interest for Japanese text presentation; it's beyond my current knowledge.

Kind regards,

Nigel


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Date:  Wednesday, 10 October 2018 at 17:41
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Subject:  Re: [w3c/csswg-drafts] [css-text-4] text-transform: full-size-kana (#3143)


The CSS Working Group just discussed text-transform: full-size-kana, and agreed to the following:

* RESOLVED: Add text-transform: full-size-kana to Text L3 marked at-risk

The full IRC log of that discussion <dael> Topic: text-transform: full-size-kana
<dael> github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3143 <https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3143>
<dael> florian: Wediscussed this a long time ago. I was opposed originally, but I regret that. Had in spec this value. It is meant to be used within Ruby. b/c characters in Ruby are very small there is a typographical process where you use different characters
in very small font sizes [gives example]
<dael> florian: If people do that using the wrong letter in markup speech syntesis reads it wrong. So this was proposed to do the typographical thing without using a different character.
<myles_> U+3083 HIRAGANA LETTER SMALL YA
<myles_> U+3084 HIRAGANA LETTER YA
<dael> florian: Original objection was this is niche and instead of doing this we should allow authors to make custom text transforms. Wrote a spec for custom, but no one paid attention and there have been no additional us c ases. So there is no slippery slope.
<myles_> q+
<dael> florian: Another thing is there is an open type feature that can be turned on for Ruby and allow fonts to do this. That would only work if font you're using has that. But i t's not clear that it's meant for this effect in Ruby. And as far as I know actual
fonts don't do that.
<dael> myles_: I think the general idea here is good. One thought and question. Thought I don't think font-varient is right. It is a unicode transformation. Font features weren't designed for this. We should model this as a text-transform. Is there ever a situation
where Ruby wouldn't want this? Can it be on by default?
<dael> florian: I don't think on by default. Semantically it reads different. If he font size isnt' so small it's unreadable you might not want this.
<dael> fantasai: Agree with florian and myles_ that we should add. This is important for a11y. It keeps the underlying text data the same while allowing authors to do the style they want. And I agree font-varient Ruby is not right. That's about changing shape,
not changing one letter to another.
<Rossen_> q?
<Rossen_> ack myles_
<myles_> q-
<dael> florian: Some authors might not want it because they argue it's not a legibility issue, people just got into the habit of doing it. If people want to do it is something that's disagreed on so it would not work as a default.
<dael> Rossen_: I hear support to add this. I also hear we should add this to transforms and not variants
<dael> Rossen_: Do we have other opinions?
<dael> fantasai: Do we add to L3 o r L4 of text? Originally in L3 but was removed.
<dael> Rossen_: Reason not to put it in L4?
<dael> fantasai: I think it's simple enoughwe won't get i ssues
<dael> florian: at-risk i n L3?
<dael> myles_: Will spec include list of mappings?
<dael> fantasai: Definitely.
<dael> Rossen_: L3 still h as quite a bit of open issues. Adding this to L3 won't delay. Let's add there and not mark at-risk
<dael> florian: I would mark at-risk. We're getting closer to CR
<dael> Rossen_: Looking at # of open issues I don't think we're close
<dael> florian: Really?
<dael> Rossen_: Please prove me wrong.
<dael> fantasai: We can adjust at-risk later.
<dael> Rossen_: Objections to adding text-transform: full-size-kana to Text L3 marked at-risk
<dael> RESOLVED: Add text-transform: full-size-kana to Text L3 marked at-risk
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