W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > February 2018

Re: {agenda} TTWG Meeting 2018-02-08

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2018 11:33:40 +0000
To: Michael Dolan <mike@dolan.tv>, TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D6A1E5D0.5486F%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Hi Mike,

It's labelled as 'agenda' so we'll try to cover it.



From: Michael Dolan <mike@dolan.tv<mailto:mike@dolan.tv>>
Date: Wednesday, 7 February 2018 at 22:01
To: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk<mailto:nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>>, TTWG <public-tt@w3.org<mailto:public-tt@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: {agenda} TTWG Meeting 2018-02-08

Hi Nigel,

I know the 1.0.1 comment period has closed but can we discuss this briefly tomorrow?


It affects 1.1 and is more of philosophical question on the noted provisions. After we decide what’s “right” we can decide which versions to apply it to.


From: Nigel Megitt [mailto:nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 9:06 AM
To: TTWG <public-tt@w3.org<mailto:public-tt@w3.org>>
Subject: {agenda} TTWG Meeting 2018-02-08

This meeting is scheduled for up to 120m. Please be ready for a prompt start at 10:03am Boston time.

Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.

Check https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20180208T10&p1=43

Thursdays 10:03am-12:00pm Boston local

Joining details:

see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2016Oct/0009.html

(members-only link – if you can't see this and wish to join please contact me)

Agenda+ Assign Roles

Chairs: Nigel Megitt

Scribe: usually Nigel – open to offers!

Regrets: None

Activity since last meeting:
See individual agenda items for recent activity on specific products

Cross-product TTWG board: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/board/

We are still using tracker for actions unrelated to issues.
Please do not add or modify issues in tracker!

IMSC: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pulse

TTML1: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pulse

TTML2: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pulse

TTML Profile Registry: https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pulse

TTML-WebVTT mapping: https://github.com/w3c/ttml-webvtt-mapping/pulse

WebVTT: https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pulse

Agenda+ Prioritise discussion for this meeting and look ahead

Check-point for order of topics – I'd suggest, subject to reordering:
1. TTML2 Actions, Pull Requests and Issues
2. TTML1 Actions, Third Edition Pull Requests and Issues
3. IMSC Actions, Pull Requests and Issues
4. IMSC vNext requirements Actions, Pull Requests and Issues
5. CSS Actions Review
6. WebVTT (David Singer to Chair if present)
7. HDR in PNG (placeholder)
8. AOB – please notify of any other AOB now!

Reminder re future milestones and meetings:

February meetings:

Thursday 15th February: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 22nd February: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)

IMSC 2 and TTML2 publication events: see the timeline of upcoming work at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications#Timeline_of_TTML2_and_IMSC2_work

Further ahead:

Thursday 1st March: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 8th March: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 15th March: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 22nd March: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)
Thursday 29th March: TTWG meeting ? Hour(s)

Agenda+ TTML2 Actions, Pull Requests and Issues






Due Date

Associated with



Prepare a document showing mapping arib ruby extension features to ttml2 for use as a liaison document to arib.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/443>

Glenn Adams





Create issue on ttml2 to add "mapping from other versions and profiles of ttml"<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/462>

Glenn Adams



Recent Activity

 6 Pull requests merged by 1 person
Merged #575 Apply fix for ttml1/#201 (#358).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/575>
Merged #574 Apply fix for ttml1/#197 (#358).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/574>
Merged #573 Port TTML1 fix for ttml1/#192 (#358).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/573>
Merged #572 Remove tts:inlineAreaBreak (#571).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/572>
Merged #569 Align initial values of tts:origin and tts:position (#551).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/569>
Merged #570 Remove animate, begin, dur, end, region and timeContainer of br elements (#552).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/570>

 7 Issues closed by 3 people
Closed #260 Should rubyOverhang:allow overlap ideographs in Japanese?<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/260>
Closed #373 Add auto to tts:rubyOffset.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/373>
Closed #571 Remove tts:inlineAreaBreak.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/571>
Closed #551 Consider aligning initial values of tts:position and tts:origin.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/551>
Closed #552 Remove explicit animation, styling and timing from break (br) element.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/552>
Closed #246 Complex ruby is usually both mono and group ruby<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/246>
Closed #612 Meet WCAG SC 1.4.1 requirement.<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/612>
·         Pull Requests open for review (to discuss if requested):

 17 Pull requests proposed by 4 people
Proposed #613 adding ruby pinyin example<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/613>
Proposed #614 Further constrain ruby descendants (#372).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/614>
Proposed #615 Add notes elaborating use of altText named metadata item (#490).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/615>
Proposed #616 Make begin times relative to the document temporal coordinate space (#512)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/616>
Proposed #617 enable inline ruby presentation based on document processing context<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/617>
Proposed #618 use mono ruby in example of rubyPosition<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/618>
Proposed #619 clarify use of tts:textCombine<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/619>
Proposed #620 Clarify presentation processor behaviour for anamorphic fonts<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/620>
Proposed #621 Remove usesForced named metadata item<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/621>
Proposed #622 Add better overflow example (using TTML1 example)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/622>
Proposed #623 mapping btw rb and rt in complex cases<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/623>
Proposed #624 remove rubyOffset<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/624>
Proposed #625 Use glyph area wording for textOrientation (#281).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/625>
Proposed #626 Update reference to changes document; add editorial note for processi…<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/626>
Proposed #627 In tts:fontSize replace applies and expresses with determines (#548).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/627>
Proposed #628 Clarify the note text around region association (#592).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/628>
Proposed #629 Quote value syntax keywords (#587).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/629>

Plus 18 pull requests open for longer:

Proposed #593 Map measure 'auto' on region to '100%' rather than 'available' (#351).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/593>
Proposed #594 Specify missing validation semantics (#362, #363, #367, #541).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/594>
Proposed #595 Remove support for unitless lengths (#561).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/595>
Proposed #596 Remove root style inheritance (#546).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/596>
Proposed #597 Remove @format attribute from audio, font, and image elements (#544).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/597>
Proposed #598 new feature designators for extent<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/598>
Proposed #599 port modified text from TTML1 (forward interoperability of attribute extensions in TT namespaces)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/599>
Proposed #600 Fix from TTML1 to clarify the use of attributes in TTML namespace but NOT defined in TTML<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/600>
Proposed #601 Add note from TTML1 regarding padding and writingMode<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/601>
Proposed #602 apply changes from TTML1 (clarification on epoch)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/602>
Proposed #603 introduce anonymous span creation procedure (from TTML1 text)<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/603>
Proposed #604 Remove auto value for rubyAlign (#249).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/604>
Proposed #605 Add note for wide ruby annotations<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/605>
Proposed #606 Remove ttp:version parameter attribute (#435).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/606>
Proposed #607 Refactor support for foreign namespace attributes and elements (#439).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/607>
Proposed #608 Improve animation value syntax (#383).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/608>  d
Proposed #610 Simplify argument-list expression (#589).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/610>
Proposed #611 Loosen coupling between usesForced and forced bound parameter (#609).<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/611>

New (and old) Issues to discuss:

(Plus unresolved issues with ongoing conversations, to be confirmed.)
Issues marked as Agenda:

Feedback on HDR compositing<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/400> <https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/552> Agenda<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Aagenda>

 2 Issues created by 2 people
Opened #631 Update to Process 2018<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/631>
Opened #630 Use of "may be derived from".<https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/630>


Most recent WD published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml2-20170630/

Current ED available at https://w3c.github.io/ttml2/

Current open issues:  https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues

See spreadsheet of editorial actions at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/ednotes.xlsx

Edit/build instructions now in README in ttml2/spec/ at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/blob/master/spec/README.md

Agenda+ TTML1 Actions, Pull Requests and Issues

Actions – none in Tracker

Recent Activity

 4 Pull requests merged by 1 person
Merged #338 Update stylesheet to match TTML2<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/338>
Merged #336 Fix typo at definition of implicit duration<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/336>
Merged #334 Clarify relationship between media time expressions and media times<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/334>
Merged #331 Clarify tts:direction on <p><https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/331>

 6 Issues closed by 1 person
Closed #265 Update stylesheet<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/265>
Closed #335 Misuse of span in sentences<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/335>
Closed #314 Update Annex L intro per TTML2 modifications<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/314>
Closed #312 Should certain TTML styles apply to <br>?<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/312>
Closed #300 Clarify timing concepts in relation to SMIL<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/300>
Closed #324 Backport text from TTML2 about the use of tts:direction at paragraph level<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/324>

Pull Requests To Review (if discussion requested)

 1 Pull request proposed by 1 person
·         Proposed #340 Specify timing semantics for <br><https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/340>

Plus 2 open for longer:

Clarify tts:fontSize semantics<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/301>
Specify semantics of fontSize in 'em' on region<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/pull/279>


New (and old) Issues to Discuss

(Plus unresolved issues with ongoing conversations, to be confirmed.)

 3 Issues created by 2 people
Opened #341 CR Editorial Task List<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/341>
Opened #339 Specify implicit duration of <br><https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/339>
Opened #337 Update to Process 2018<https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/337>

No issues are currently labelled for the agenda.


TTML1 issues labelled for the agenda: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/labels/agenda

TTML1 issues blocked: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/labels/blocked

Current open issues: https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues

Agenda+ IMSC Actions, Pull Requests and Issues






Due Date

Associated with



Propose liaison text for the imsc 1.1 fpwd<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/509>

Pierre-Anthony Lemieux


TTML IMSC 2.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/10>

Recent Activity

 3 Pull requests merged by 1 person
Merged #306 Use Root Container Region consistently<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/306>
Merged #304 Clarify name of IMSC namespaces<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/304>
Merged #307 Defer to TTML2 for security and privacy considerations<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/307>

 4 Issues closed by 1 person
Closed #280 privacy and cross-origin policies not clear<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/280>
Closed #303 Add permitted-deprecated to intro text of §6<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/303>
Closed #302 Root Container is not defined<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/302>
Closed #301 Naming of IMSC namespaces<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/301>

Pull Requests To Review (if discussion requested)

 1 Pull request proposed by 1 person
·         Proposed #322 Port IMSC1.0.1 fixes<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/322> imsc1.1<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3Aimsc1.1>
Plus 2 pull requests open for longer:

Proposed #309 Clarify style resolution procedure<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/309> imsc1.0.1<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3Aimsc1.0.1>
Proposed #314 Prohibit usesForced metadata item<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/314> imsc1.1<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+label%3Aimsc1.1>

New (and old) Issues to Discuss

Proposal by Pierre to back-port commits already approved in IMSC 1.1 to IMSC 1.0.1 prior to moving to PR.

1 Issue created by 1 person
·         Opened #323 Update to Process 2018<https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/323>
·         (no issues currently marked as Agenda)


IMSC issues labelled for the agenda: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/labels/agenda :
IMSC issues blocked: https://github.com/w3c/imsc/labels/blocked

IMSC 1.0.1
Editor's draft is directly viewable at http://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html

IMSC 1.0.1 CR published at https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/CR-ttml-imsc1.0.1-20170713/

IMSC 1.0.1 Implementation report at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_0_1_Implementation_Report

IMSC 1 Rec available at https://www.w3.org/TR/2016/REC-ttml-imsc1-20160421/

Patent policy call for exclusions sent 2017-02-03, archived at https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Feb/0006.html

IMSC Implementation Page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_implementation_page.

IMSC Tests repository: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-tests

IMSC 1.1 FPWD: https://www.w3.org/TR/2017/WD-ttml-imsc1.1-20171017/

Unicode CLDR discussion
Unicode ticket is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915

Pierre's response to the recent update is at http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915#comment:9

Email response from Shervin at Unicode https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0018.html

Agenda+ IMSC vNext Requirements


IMSCvNext Requirements editor's draft: https://w3c.github.io/imsc-vnext-reqs/

IMSCvNext Requirements repository: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs

Recent Activity


Pull requests for review (to discuss if requested)

3 Pull requests open for longer than a week:
·         Proposed #16 Constrain text emphasis position to 'outside'<https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/pull/16>
·         Proposed #17 Specify deprecation model<https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/pull/17>
List features that are excluded from deprecation requirements<https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/pull/12>

PROPOSAL: Publish IMSC v1.1 Requirements as a WG Note


IMSC Requirements issues labelled for the agenda: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/labels/agenda :
IMSC Requirements issues blocked: https://github.com/w3c/imsc-vnext-reqs/labels/blocked

Agenda+ CSS actions review

Are CSS issues filed for all style attributes for which we believe CSS work is needed?

See also https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2017Nov/0109.html

CSS WG review

Minutes from TTWG and CSS WG joint meeting at TPAC: https://www.w3.org/2017/11/09-tt-minutes.html#item35

Minutes from CSS WG Paris F2F that Nigel attended remotely on Friday 4th August: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2017Sep/0000.html

This is at https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/CSSRequirements

TAG design review issue: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/138

CSS Review of TTML2, threads: FW: TTML2 horizontal review with CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0013.html> and Fwd: Subtitle/caption styling + TTML + CSS<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0019.html>

CSS 2.2 request for reviews from TTWG et al: Pre-announcement of CR for CSS 2.2 & request for reviews<https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0017.html> When can we schedule a review and gather feedback?

Agenda+ WebVTT





Due Date

Associated with



Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396>

David Singer


WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>



Explain to david that we need a more consistent disposition of comments for webvtt.<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/502>

Thierry Michel


WebVTT 1.0<https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/products/8>


WebVTT Wide review wiki page: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebVTT_Wide_Review


 1 Pull request merged by 1 person
·         Merged #423 Region lines cannot be negative now that they are unsigned long.<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/pull/423>
 1 Issue closed by 1 person
·         Closed #414 The VTTRegion.lines attribute is a long type but cannot accept negative values<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/414>
 2 Issues created by 1 person
·         Opened #427 The spec should include feature explanations in plain language (Moved from Bugzilla)<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/427>
·         Opened #426 Users of magnification may have overlap issues (From Bugzilla)<https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/426>
Agenda+ HDR in PNG [placeholder agenda item]


We published this Note at https://www.w3.org/TR/png-hdr-pq/ (republished 25th July incorporating fix for typo)

Repo for PQ HDR in PNG: https://github.com/w3c/png-hdr-pq

Draft WG Note: https://w3c.github.io/png-hdr-pq/



Agenda+ AOB


Wiki http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText



This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.




This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.

Received on Thursday, 8 February 2018 11:34:12 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Thursday, 8 February 2018 11:34:13 UTC