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Re: TTML2 wide review comment: styling

From: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 18:17:17 -0600
Message-ID: <CACQ=j+enQpq=EabBigMpc9PrC=jLkfm0Saad1Mh67D-NmmPwug@mail.gmail.com>
To: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Cc: David Ronca <dronca@netflix.com>, Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>, Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com>, r12a <ishida@w3.org>
Note that oblique != shear; in particular, oblique is a face name (and thus
a CSS font-style keyword) while shear is a real number that represents an
angle in the interval (-pi/2,+pi/2). So the font designer picks two angles
A,B (or maybe just one A) and generates outlines for A,B (or A and -A),
then labels those as Oblique and Reverse Oblique. In the case of shear, the
author picks an angle X (or a percentage of pi/2 as is in the case of TTML).

On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:48 PM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:

> OK
>
> it seems oblique has been discussed multiple times on the CSS list, see
> for example thread starting <https://lists.w3.org/
> Archives/Public/www-style/2013May/0252.html> but I am unsure of the
> conclusion.
>
> > On Oct 3, 2017, at 16:43 , Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:36 PM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:
> > Though I am puzzled that I am not finding ‘shear’ or ‘oblique’ mentioned
> on <https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/>?
> >
> > I would speculate that the author's of jlreq focuses on uniquely JA
> typographic features and assumed themselves it (shear) was not JA specific.
> >
> > In most page layout systems I've seen in CJK markets, this (shear) is a
> generally supported feature.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Oct 3, 2017, at 16:33 , David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Oct 3, 2017, at 16:30 , David Ronca <dronca@netflix.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> A real example of a TTML2 requirement that does not appear to map
> into CSS is tts:fontShear.  Italics don't exist in Japanese. However, JA
> subtitles uses font shearing to simulate italics; indicating, for example,
> that the speaker is offscreen.  We consider oblique text to be an essential
> JA subtitle feature that we see in the [Videotron] Lambda CAP JA subtitle
> assets that we ingest,
> > >
> > > Yes, this seems a classic case of a feature that should be generally
> supported in CSS for all (at least Japanese) text. I am puzzled that it is
> not. Is fontShear more common in, or only used in, subtitles or is it
> generally used in Japanese typography as well?
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> From the translated LambdaCAP spec:
> > >>
> > >> <image.png>
> > >>
> > >> David
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 9:11 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On Oct 2, 2017, at 4:52 , Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Especially the second point leads to a much broader discussion about
> the scope of web standards like HTML+CSS. I am sure that the subtitle
> domain would be welcoming a better integration of their requirements in
> CSS. This maybe a process that needs some more time and parallel
> developments may only be a mid-term phenomenon of the conversion process. I
> am convinced that next TPAC could help to speed the process with productive
> discussions and group agreements.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> I agree; I think the CSS group has shown themselves very responsive,
> and active in improvements. If something is needed in the way we style for
> any market, then let’s get that feature into the lingua franca we have,
> i.,e. CSS/HTML, and then it can be uniformly adopted and implemented.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> David Singer
> > >> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > David Singer
> > > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
> >
> > David Singer
> > Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
> >
> >
> >
>
> David Singer
> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>
>
Received on Wednesday, 4 October 2017 00:18:01 UTC

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