- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 15:52:28 +0000
- To: W3C Public TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D437E0D1.2E4F0%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-tt-minutes.html
Please could everyone keep watching the TTML2 repository at https://github.com/w3c/ttml2 and review pull requests; it helps to add positive comments if you have no objections to the proposals, rather than being silent.
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
27 Oct 2016
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
Andreas, Glenn, Nigel, Pierre
Regrets
Thierry
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]F2F Meeting.
3. [6]IMSC
4. [7]TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial
actions etc
* [8]Summary of Action Items
* [9]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribeNick: nigel
nigel: Today here at the BBC, alongside Ericsson, we managed a
world first, which was an entire TTML-based live subtitling
solution from authoring to audience, using EBU-TT Live,
EBU-TT-D and DASH.
group: [discussion about sequence numbering and identification]
resulting in proposal
... to create a TTML extension spec at a later date for
sequence processing.
glenn: I'll take the action to close the sequence numbering and
identification issues on TTML2
... and mark them as for TTML.next or something like that.
nigel: Okay, I can't see any reason not to do that; we would
need an update to the Charter
... to create a new Rec track spec.
This meeting
nigel: Agenda for today is F2F Meeting, IMSC, TTML. Any other
business?
group: No other business.
F2F Meeting.
glenn: Will there be any WebVTT topics on the agenda for the
F2F?
nigel: I'll check back with David on that.
action-482?
<trackbot> action-482 -- Nigel Megitt to Propose 12 and 13 jan
to ttwg for a f2f meeting in london -- due 2016-10-20 --
PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[10]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/482
[10] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/482
close action-482
<trackbot> Closed action-482.
action-483?
<trackbot> action-483 -- Thierry Michel to Create a template
wiki page for the f2f details -- due 2016-10-27 -- CLOSED
<trackbot>
[11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/483
[11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/483
nigel: In case anyone has the original wiki page bookmarked
please update your bookmark
... to [12]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2017 - the
year was wrong originally.
[12] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2017
IMSC
action-479?
<trackbot> action-479 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Refactor the
imsc repository in preparation for future versions of imsc. --
due 2016-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/479
[13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/479
Pierre: I don't think I'm waiting on anyone for that.
action-484?
<trackbot> action-484 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft a
response liaison to dvb thanking them for incoming and
requesting more details re timeline -- due 2016-10-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/484
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/484
Pierre: I'm working on my proposal for that liaison to DVB.
nigel: Is there anything else to cover on IMSC?
Pierre: No, but I'm working towards a concrete plan for
discussion in the F2F, as a good arbitrary milestone. The
timing seems right.
nigel: Yes it does.
Pierre: As part of the plan we have to figure out the sequence
of events to keep implementers
... and other organisations in the loop so they can review and
have their say.
... I think having a good plan by mid January makes sense for
where we're going.
TTML1 & TTML2 issues, actions, PRs, editorial actions etc
nigel: There's been a lot of activity this week. What's most
important?
glenn: On the font size issue (
[15]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/200 ) I think there
... was a proposal to make concrete that relative value
calculations are in relation to
... computed values, by improving the language. Also to improve
the language around
... relative value resolution in the style processing sections.
[15] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/200
nigel: I would also like to add the surprise result examples
that I constructed.
glenn: I agree.
... Some of this debate led back to a comment in TTML1 that I
think we should now
... make normative, and take it out of the note. The last note
in ttp:cellResolution is where this
... is elaborated. We might also want to make a statement under
tts:fontSize.
nigel: So the relative value discussion is to ensure that
computed values can be expressed
... in terms of rw and rh?
glenn: Yes, correct, I'll add that as a note to the issue 200.
... posted as
[16]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/200#issuecomment-256665
979
... By the way I think of em as another way of writing %
basically.
[16] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/200#issuecomment-256665979
nigel: In the case of anamorphic scaling you would still say
that em is always related to
... the height, right?
glenn: Yes, if you use em in the horizontal part of a two part
font size that refers to the height
... of the font never the width.
nigel: We haven't discussed use of rw and rh as measures for
fontSize. I don't think it
... causes any particular difficulties but we can now make the
font height proportional to
... the width of the root container region. Just noting it.
glenn: I agree.
nigel: I think that concludes on issue 200. Is there anything
else we can discuss to assist
... with your editing work Glenn?
Glenn: At the moment I'm processing issues as quickly as I can,
so if anyone has any
... questions on technical issues to raise then please do so. I
plan to work initially on
... syntactical changes and then on semantic definitions.
... I haven't forgotten about Audio Description by the way
Nigel.
nigel: And I haven't forgotten about examples. Perhaps I'll do
tts:textShadow next.
Glenn: That would be a good one.
... I have not yet dealt with the background area merging,
which I think is an issue on
... tts:border with <border-radii>. Have you proposed some
syntax for this Nigel?
nigel: I did not think that syntax was required.
Glenn: I would like to see it as a parameter on border-radii.
Pierre: The proposal is really aesthetically pleasing. Can it
be implemented in CSS?
Glenn: The web platform supports SVG so you can do anything
that TTML asks for.
Pierre: I'm sure you've been following this - SVG is not
supported uniformly across all browsers.
Glenn: The core SVG for TTML rendering is supported fairly
uniformly across all browsers.
Pierre: [expresses desire to constrain features to what can be
supported on the web platform in CSS]
Glenn: [argues that this is not a scope limit for us]
Pierre: The SVG point sounds like it answers my question: it is
implementable in SVG.
Glenn: Yes. I try to rely only on a subset of SVG 1.0 not even
any later versions.
Pierre: OK. [discussion of this being a feature of TTPE and
testing]
... So should all the presentation semantics be implementable
in SVG 1.0?
Glenn: Yes.
Nigel: There's one definite exception, which is the reference
to the Web Audio spec; the
... Chair of the Web Audio Group has told me that they are
expecting to move to CR before
... us on TTML2. Do we also depend on SMIL for continuous
animations in SMIL?
Glenn: Actually no since SVG 1.0 has animation semantics that
are based on but not
... dependent on SMIL.
... I don't see a problem with a guideline for the group being
that we should avoid
... defining functionality in TTML that is known to be
impossible or impractical to render
... using SVG when we are talking about visual presentation.
Pierre: I think that's a good place to start.
Glenn: Profiles might make decisions based on stricter
guidelines.
Pierre: Right.
Nigel: I did have a look at the recently merged PRs and add my
review comments, all positive
... if I recall correctly. I would encourage everyone to do
similarly, and please add positive
... comments as well as negative ones.
Glenn: By the way on
[17]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/105 that you reopened
Nigel
... I agree that we need to handle smpte discontinuous so I
will add something for that.
[17] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/105
Nigel: Great, thank you.
... Having a look at the pulse, I see
[18]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/141
[18] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/141
Glenn: The question is if there is a requirement for alt text
to be enforced on images.
Pierre: That was a long discussion on IMSC 1 so if you are
going to include something
... similar in TTML2 then reuse the same text.
Glenn: I probably would not make it a Shall.
Pierre: It does not say that today.
Glenn: Okay I have no problem with making it a recommendation.
... A quick question: in TTML2 we have both foreground and
background images. Can we
... safely assume that any use of background image in SMPTE-TT
or IMSC 1 is as a foreground
... image with no additional information presented in front?
Pierre: Yes, certainly in IMSC 1.
... I would recommend not putting information in images that
might require some kind of
... video description.
nigel: I would be careful to ensure that if there is a need to
use any textual description for
... an image, for example for translating into a braille
display or some other accessible
... technology, then we do not prevent that.
... We're at the end of today's meeting. Thanks everyone.
[adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [19]scribe.perl version
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Received on Thursday, 27 October 2016 15:52:59 UTC