- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2016 16:24:51 +0000
- To: "public-tt@w3.org" <public-tt@w3.org>
- CC: Bert Bos <bert@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D4787321.32C35%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-tt-minutes.html
If any members would like TTWG to request additional time to review the CSS 2.2 spec as requested by Bert in his email [1] please let me know by 22nd December.
[1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0017.html
The minutes in text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
15 Dec 2016
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
Nigel, Andreas, Pierre
Regrets
Glenn, Mike, Thierry
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
Nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]F2F Meeting
3. [6]IMSC drifting into general TTML
* [7]Summary of Action Items
* [8]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribe: Nigel
This meeting
Nigel: I think we should mention the CLDR response from Unicode
at least.
... Anything else?
group: Nothing specific
F2F Meeting
Pierre: I suggest generating a detailed agenda for example
pointing at the issues that we
... need to close.
Nigel: That's true, we need to close issues!
<scribe> ACTION: Nigel Generate detailed (timed) agenda for F2F
to allow people to prepare in advance [recorded in
[9]http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[9] http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-491 - Generate detailed (timed)
agenda for f2f to allow people to prepare in advance [on Nigel
Megitt - due 2016-12-22].
Pierre: I'm happy to take a look at that for IMSC.
Andreas: For IMSC 1.1 and also TTML1 we need to spend time on
the line gap issue.
Nigel: Agreed.
Andreas: Also Safe Crop Area is something we have discussed but
do not have anything
... more concrete to discuss for inclusion in IMSC 1.1, in
London.
Nigel: +1
Pierre: We cannot finalise the agenda until Jan 8 when we have
all the liaisons in hopefully.
Nigel: True.
... Also we want to be able to review an updated draft of TTML2
with a view to publishing
... as a CR, so the outcome of that review process at the F2F
would be a set of small(ish) actions
... or a resolution to publish. So that we can have enough time
to prepare for that we need
... the updated draft from Glenn by 5th Jan at the absolute
latest.
Pierre: I think that may not even be possible even if we have a
draft today, but we should at
... least be able to close a good set of issues.
Andreas: The product with the most urgent deadline will be the
update to IMSC 1 so that
... should be taken into account when preparing our agenda.
Nigel: So I have an action, thank you Pierre for offering to
review/author the IMSC parts of the agenda,
... and I will also ping it to Glenn.
Pierre: What I will do is finalise the IMSC parts based on the
liaisons I have received by Jan 8,
... as soon as possible after Jan 8.
Nigel: Thank you for that.
IMSC drifting into general TTML
Nigel: Thank you Pierre for responding to the CLDR ticket. We
got a response:
->
[10]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0018
.html
[10] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2016Dec/0018.html
Nigel: Shervin is suggesting that a closer inspection of each
set is necessary.
Pierre: The folk who put the sets together did not want to miss
anything so they erred on the
... side of being too broad.
... I can get back to them on that because for instance the
Latin Extended A set is literally
... the Unicode code block that includes u+017F so instead of
trying to finesse every
... character set for every country in central Europe etc. they
just said for all Latin European
... countries we are going to recommend the use of any
character within the Unicode Latin Extended A code block.
... That's inclusive at low cost. I think this is a response to
Shervin, to explain this.
Nigel: Do you want to write that response?
Pierre: Yes, I can reply to Shervin.
... If their recommendation is to target each language
independently, then that would be
... useful feedback for us.
Nigel: Thank you!
... Anything else on IMSC?
Pierre: Something that also applies to TTML is when features
that are required for subtitles
... and captions are not supported by CSS. If features are
required they should be in the web
... platform; if not they should not be in IMSC (and possibly
TTML). I'm not sure how we do that.
Nigel: I agree with this, and observe that if it's hard to get
implementations of everything in
... specifications then the last thing you want is to add new
features that don't get implemented,
... since they could hold CRs up for a long time. On the other
hand no feature gets implemented
... unless it is requested/proposed first. So the first thing
we should do is trawl the CSS
... issue trackers to make sure that they are recorded; getting
them implemented is something
... that our members cannot necessarily do, so we do need to
get buy-in from the CSS
... implementers, otherwise we will never get those features in
CSS recommendations.
Pierre: We should tell CSS, maybe TAG, AC etc that we have
these requirements for the web platform.
Andreas: We also have influence as members on other groups'
charters.
Nigel: Also (thank you for the reminder) we have received a
request from Bert Bos to review
... CSS 2.2 CR.
-> [11]http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS22/changes.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS22/changes.html
Nigel: Bert is asking for implementation feedback on the CR,
but also possibly for wide
... review comments. Do you want to request any time for
reviewing CSS 2.2 prior to
... feeding back to CSS WG?
... (that's a question for the group not just those present on
this call)
Pierre: I would support spending time in the F2F analysing
TTML2 to work out which features
... need to be in CSS.
Nigel: One thing we could do is to specify in our CR exit
criteria that at least one implementation
... must be done using a mix of HTML, CSS and
EcmaScript/JavaScript, and attempt to work
... out which TTML2 features would need a polyfill or something
similar to make that happen.
... Then we could choose to mark those features as "at risk" so
that, should they not satisfy
... the exit criteria, then we can drop them when we move to
Proposed Recommendation
... without incurring a process delay.
Pierre: I like that idea.
Nigel: If we were to set a rule like "don't publish TTML2
unless all features are implementable in CSS"
... then we would effectively be waiting forever, or it would
seem that way, since if those
... features are only ever exercised by translation from TTML2
to HTML+CSS then I think
... most implementers of browsers would deprioritise
implementation of those features
... almost immediately on the basis of a low expected volume of
usage.
... Ok we're out of time for today, thanks all. [Adjourns
meeting]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Nigel Generate detailed (timed) agenda for F2F to
allow people to prepare in advance [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[12] http://www.w3.org/2016/12/15-tt-minutes.html#action01
Summary of Resolutions
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 15 December 2016 16:25:23 UTC