- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:17:52 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D139D024.1D931%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending this week's meeting. Minutes in HTML format can be found at: http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-minutes.html
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
26 Mar 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
nigel, pal, glenn, Andreas
Regrets
Frans, jdsmith
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]Actions
3. [6]F2F
4. [7]IMSC 1 Test Suite and Implementation Report
5. [8]WebVTT
6. [9]Issues
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 26 March 2015
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
nigel: We have an extra agenda item today on tmichel's request,
for the WebVTT comments
group: no AOB
Actions
action-378?
<trackbot> action-378 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft smpte
request including dispositions from action-369 and
backgroundcolor initial value question -- due 2015-03-05 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/378
[11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/378
nigel: I did this and sent it round
<inserted> See later - this comment actually refers to
Action-382. Action-378 remains open
close action-378
<trackbot> Closed action-378.
nigel: Let's defer discussion of action-379 to the IMSC test
suite agenda item
action-381?
<trackbot> action-381 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Prepare new
list of changes to imsc 1 since cr1. -- due 2015-03-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/381
[12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/381
pal: I have a draft here but need to do some more work on it
before I send it. I'll do that ASAP - apologies for not getting
around to it.
action-383?
<trackbot> action-383 -- Glenn Adams to Missing XML declaration
-- due 2015-03-26 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
[13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
glenn: I added this in but have a problem with the bindings
processor, so I need to figure out what's going on.
... when I take it out the jaxb binding parser succeeds. But if
I don't generate the bindings then
... there's no problem so I need to do some more work to figure
out the resolution. I did update
... the schema document in the repository.
nigel: That didn't appear in the TTML Changelog RSS feed for
some reason.
reopen action-378
<trackbot> Re-opened action-378.
action-382
<trackbot> action-382 -- Nigel Megitt to Summarise action-369
end point -- due 2015-03-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/382
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/382
nigel: My mistake earlier - it should be this one that I close,
as discussed earlier.
close action-382
<trackbot> Closed action-382.
action-380?
<trackbot> action-380 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Create imsc
1 issues for removing initial value constraints, rounding
definitions different to ttml1 and frame rate relationship to
video -- due 2015-03-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/380
[15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/380
pal: I did create those issues, and have also implemented them.
close action-380
<trackbot> Closed action-380.
F2F
nigel: On the Las Vegas F2F, there's not much more to report.
Dae Kim of Netflix will be observing.
[16]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015
[16] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015
glenn: I'm planning to spend some time from April 1 to prepare
some updates to TTML2 and will
... be generating some topics that we will want to discuss.
pal: I don't have any particular outstanding items for IMSC 1
right now, though some may arise.
... I do have some TTML2 issues that I plan to raise, which may
generate some discussion also.
nigel: Thanks both. Looking at TPAC 2015 in Sapporo, I sent
round a link to a survey, whose results
... I will be using to provide a group response to the
organisers.
[17]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TTWGTPAC2015/
[17] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TTWGTPAC2015/
nigel: Thanks for the responses so far. The survey stays open
until 22nd April.
... The early results are enough to say that we will have a f2f
meeting in Sapporo.
... Probably on the Monday and Tuesday.
pal: It would be really great if the TTWG meetings don't
overlap with the HTML media task force meetings.
... A joint meeting could be a really good idea.
nigel: Thanks that's a really good point.
... There's still time to complete this survey - please do if
you haven't already.
IMSC 1 Test Suite and Implementation Report
action-379?
<trackbot> action-379 -- Nigel Megitt to Obtain png images for
#linepadding and #multirowalign test cases. -- due 2015-03-19
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/379
[18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/379
nigel: I did send round some HTML as a source for creating a
PNG. Andreas, you had a concern?
atai: I think we should not use HTML as a reference source
especially if it uses advanced features.
... It may not look the same on all clients. Even if we
recommend a specific browser version it may
... generate a false understanding. We should maybe only use
PNGs.
glenn: I'd emphasise that we absolutely cannot use HTML. The
two options are SVG and PNG.
nigel: That's fine - and it wasn't my intention that the HTML
be used directly.
glenn: Of course it's useful for us in our working group to use
HTML to work on mappings or quick demos
... but for test content or images to go into the spec we
should use SVG or PNG.
nigel: I'd second that.
pal: The examples worked okay for me though there were some
strange artefacts and line box boundaries
... (Chrome on Win7)
nigel: Chrome on Mac OS X looks fine for me.
... I'm happy to turn those into PNGs then. The only thing is
that it might help if we reduce the
... amount of text so that it fits on two lines not three, on a
16:9 window. Or reduce the font size.
... I'd be happy either way. I'll do some fiddling with the
example and the HTML equivalent and send
... you the results, Pierre.
pal: That makes sense.
nigel: I have a colleague working on an implementation and that
generated a question that's
... unclear from TTML. Is the width of the background area of a
tt:p the content area of the parent region
... less the padding or is it as wide as the widest line area
of the content of the p?
glenn: It should be the width of the content area which is the
width of the parent element's area
... minus any padding, so in TTML1 that's the region's width
minus region padding, but in TTML2 body and div can have
... their own padding values.
nigel: In that case the examples in TTML are at best ambiguous
and possibly misleading. I may raise an issue on this.
... For example the sample image on tts:backgroundColor, where
the text width happens to be
... exactly the same as the padding inset area, so it looks as
though the purple background on the
... p is wrapped to the contained content not the padding
width.
glenn: You're right, I think this could be made clearer.
Perhaps a couple of additional examples
... would be appropriate.
nigel: Okay, I'll raise that then.
Andreas: Can we discuss issue-375?
issue-375?
<trackbot> issue-375 -- Use of the ebutts:linePadding and
ebutts:multiRowAlign in IMSC 1 -- open
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/375
[19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/375
Andreas: I can confirm that ebutts:multiRowAlign does apply
only to tt:p and is inheritable. We should
... update EBU-TT-D, and in the meantime we should update IMSC
1 accordingly.
pal: Just to confirm, the proposed resolution is to add some
text to IMSC 1?
Andreas: I'll just check...
... ... I think the issue we raised is that it could be used
for inline styling, but then you brought up
<glenn_> hmm, i just lost audio, calling back
Andreas: the other issue. Yes, I think it's not right because
it only applies to tt:p. If you apply it to region,
... body or div it would give a completely different result. If
it applied to a div then the reference would
... be the longest line in the container. It should only apply
to tt:p and be inheritable.
pal: How do you want to proceed?
Andreas: I can propose some text. It's just a matter of
reproducing the information that's on the
... style attributes in TTML. I'll put the proposed text in the
issue for review.
issue-375: [meeting 2015-003-26] Andreas to propose some
wording to make clear that ebutts:multiRowAlign applies only to
tt:p and is inheritable.
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-375 Use of the
ebutts:linePadding and ebutts:multiRowAlign in IMSC 1.
pal: Andreas, could I ask you to do this by the end of the
week? That will allow me to complete my
... report on the changes since the CR.
Andreas: Yes, I will do that.
pal: Thanks
WebVTT
nigel: Since Thierry is not on the call, and he requested this
topic, I'll defer it.
Issues
issue-376?
<trackbot> issue-376 -- Missing XML declaration -- raised
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/376
[20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/376
reopen issue-376
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-376.
nigel: This is the schema issue we discussed earlier - work has
already begun.
issue-379?
<trackbot> issue-379 -- ruby text should used special
inheritance algorithm -- raised
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/379
[21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/379
glenn: As we were implementing Ruby support we realised that
inheriting the font size and line height
... by default it would collide with an automatic sizing
algorithm for fonts because one could not
... distinguish between the author's genuine intent vs having
no default or initial value, in which
... case automatic sizing would apply. What we've implemented
is that for textContainer it does not
... inherit any fontSize or lineHeight unless it's explicitly
specified on the textContainer and on the
... text Ruby that could be a child of a textContainer (or
not). It can inherit from a parent textContainer
... but no further. In other words if the textContainer
specified a fontSize or lineHeight the contained
... text would also get that, otherwise it would not.
nigel: It's tempting to suggest the keyword auto for fontSize,
to make the same distinction.
glenn: There's somewhere else where that could be useful, for
content fitting, but I don't want to
... go there quite yet. For example, find a font size that will
fit the content into the region.
... The tradition of the keyword auto in CSS is: let the UA
figure out what's best. So it's impossible
... to define interoperability when it comes to the use of
auto.
reopen issue-379
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-379.
issue-367?
<trackbot> issue-367 -- Clarify initial value override for
tts:textAlign -- pending review
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/367
[22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/367
pal: This has been implemented.
nigel: This and issue-377 and issue-378 have been implemented
this week and nobody on the call
... has had a chance to review yet, so let's leave those for
another week.
pal: There's nothing to call out particularly - these
implementations follow what we came to a
... consensus on during the last call.
nigel: I think you can proceed with the changes relative to CR
document based on assumed acceptance of these issue
implementations.
pal: That's what I'll do.
nigel: We've hit time for today, so thanks very much everyone.
We'll meet again same time next
... week, which for folk in Europe is back to the traditional
time because DST comes in this week here.
... [adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 26 March 2015 15:18:27 UTC