{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2015-07-30

Thanks all for attending today's meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html


In text format:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

30 Jul 2015

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          nigel, pal, glenn, Frans

   Regrets
          thierry, andreas

   Chair
          nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This Meeting
         2. [5]Action Items
         3. [6]Issues
         4. [7]TPAC 2015
         5. [8]IMSC CR2, Test Suite and Implementation Report
         6. [9]AOB
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 30 July 2015

   <scribe> scribe: nigel

This Meeting

   nigel: AOB? From me: the new W3 Process

   group: no AOB

Action Items

   action-409?

   <trackbot> action-409 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Discuss
   liaison with unicode with richard ishida -- due 2015-07-09 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/409


     [11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/409


   nigel: Thanks pal for the email to the reflector earlier.

   pal: I'm happy to draft that as a note for Unicode.

   nigel: Your update addresses my feedback, and you've clarified
   that when localizedSets reference
   ... commonSets they are *including* by reference.

   Action-409: [Meeting 2015-07-30] pal to draft a more formal
   text to send to Unicode, then check in with Richard Ishida,
   then Nigel (as chair) to send to Mark at Unicode when it's
   okay.

   <trackbot> Notes added to Action-409 Discuss liaison with
   unicode with richard ishida.

   nigel: I've mentioned the idea of this to at least one other
   group I'm working with and they wanted more detail but were in
   principle in favour, and could lend their support.

   pal: I'll add this additional more concrete information to the
   draft liaison.

   nigel: Sounds perfect.

Issues

   issue-398?

   <trackbot> issue-398 -- Add IMSC1 in title of IMSC1 -- pending
   review

   <trackbot>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/398


     [12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/398


   nigel: Pierre has done this - it's a change of title of IMSC 1
   as discussed.

   pal: That's correct.

   nigel: So now it's "TTML Profiles for Internet Media Subtitles
   and Captions 1.0 (IMSC1)"

   close issue-398

   <trackbot> Closed issue-398.

   glenn: So you added (IMSC1) at the end.

   nigel: and subtracted "Text and Image"

   glenn: Looks good.

   nigel: I have another issue that may be worth raising. Consider
   a ttm:agent that contains a
   ... ttm:actor, which references that ttm:agent.
   ... A naive implementation could process all the actors, find
   one that references its own parent,
   ... follow that through, add an actor to the list, and loop
   forever. I don't think there's a substantive
   ... problem with the spec, and it's a function of the naivety
   of the implementation, but we could
   ... add an Informative Note to point out the problem at least.

   glenn: I never thought of that possibility. I wonder if it
   makes sense semantically.
   ... Let's open an issue for it, and we may want to create an
   errata for TTML1 that excludes that
   ... usage, unless we can think of a usage.

   nigel: Okay I'll do that. The other possible resolution is to
   add an informative note warning
   ... developers about the possibility. I think it's the only
   place in the spec where there is any chance
   ... of having a circular reference in that way.

   <scribe> ACTION: nigel Raise issue regarding actor and agent
   references [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-410 - Raise issue regarding actor and
   agent references [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-08-06].

   nigel: Another resolution might be to remove the ability to
   contain an actor in agent.

   glenn: That's a major structural change.

   nigel: Yes it would be!
   ... Okay I'll go ahead and raise that issue against TTML1.

   glenn: It'd be interesting to see what I did in the TTV
   verifier for this. I don't think I have a test case for it.

TPAC 2015

   nigel: We have a wiki page, registration is open, we have a
   schedule.
   ... For the agenda, I think we need something about HTMLCue and
   meeting with HTML WG,
   ... something about charter renewal, presumably some TTML2
   review, hopefully some TTML-WebVTT
   ... mapping review work also.
   ... I may add to the Charter discussion some work BBC has been
   doing on responsive subtitles
   ... where work would be needed on the presentation behaviour,
   which would likely be
   ... interesting to many people. Also on a similar topic, APIs
   for modifying presentation dependent
   ... on other on-screen user interface elements that may clash
   with subtitles or captions.

   glenn: That seems like a very generic question. It seems like
   it's out of the scope of TTML but
   ... in scope of how TTML is embedded in some processing
   environment.

   nigel: Well since condition was introduced to TTML2, if you're
   prepared to permit on the fly
   ... processing of conditions then that could be used to do
   this, by setting parameters that
   ... result in different presentation.

   glenn: That's true, there are a lot of ways to conditionalise
   the content. Certainly you could
   ... author the content based on defined states.
   ... Do they have specific scenarios in mind?

   nigel: Yes, they do, such as "controls are visible", "advert is
   visible" etc. but the more general
   ... mechanism might be to signal priorities and layers and
   areas of the screen to avoid or prefer.
   ... Or another way would be to expose as an API some of the
   processing details of the TTML and
   ... allow e.g. javascript events to modify positions as a
   result.

   glenn: You could have a generic accessor for environment
   variables that could be used to affect
   ... presentation. That content wouldn't be truly portable
   unless we define the names ourselves,
   ... but if we're doing that then we don't need the generic
   getEnv('xxx') approach.

IMSC CR2, Test Suite and Implementation Report

   nigel: Frans pointed out recently that
   [14]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/file/tip/ttml-ww-profiles/tests

   uite/multiRowAlign/multiRowAlign1.ttml
   ... isn't actually EBU-TT-D compatible.

     [14] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/file/tip/ttml-ww-profiles/testsuite/multiRowAlign/multiRowAlign1.ttml


   Frans: Yes, that uses named colours - it would be nice if they
   could be hex colours. There are one
   ... or two other changes too. I can summarise them in an issue.

   nigel: The wider point for me is: would it cause any problems
   to change tests at this stage?

   pal: I can't think of any reason not to do it.

   Frans: Shall I raise this as an issue then?

   <scribe> ACTION: Frans Raise an issue requesting that IMSC 1
   tests for multiRowAlign and linePadding be made fully EBU-TT-D
   compatible. [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-411 - Raise an issue requesting that
   imsc 1 tests for multirowalign and linepadding be made fully
   ebu-tt-d compatible. [on Frans de Jong - due 2015-08-06].

AOB

   nigel: I wanted to mention the new W3 Process document.
   ... It's at [16]http://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/

   ... Changes are summarised at the end. This will apply to us
   from 1 September with no
   ... further action required for us to adopt it.
   ... The only thing I can see that could affect us is ยง6.3.2
   that recommends us to publish new
   ... WDs of WDs that haven't changed in the last 6 months. That
   might apply to WebVTT and TTML2
   ... if we haven't published a new version by 1 September, but
   it's a SHOULD not a SHALL.
   ... We've hit the end of our agenda, so I'll adjourn. Have a
   good week everyone! [adjourns meeting]

     [16] http://www.w3.org/2015/Process-20150901/


Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: Frans Raise an issue requesting that IMSC 1 tests
   for multiRowAlign and linePadding be made fully EBU-TT-D
   compatible. [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: nigel Raise issue regarding actor and agent
   references [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2015/07/30-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Thursday, 30 July 2015 15:02:21 UTC