- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2015 16:24:50 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D10BBE7B.1B71C%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks everyone for attending today's meeting. Minutes in HTML format can be found at: http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-minutes.html
And in text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
19 Feb 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
glenn, nigel, tmichel, Andreas, jdsmith, pal, Frans
Regrets
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This Meeting
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]F2F
4. [7]Action Items (continued)
5. [8]IMSC Test Suite and Implementation Report
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 19 February 2015
<scribe> scribeNick: nigel
This Meeting
nigel: Summarises agenda. AOB?
group: no AOB
nigel: Note that on the agenda the timeline for the next TTML2
WD is marked 'AT RISK'.
... One mitigation to that resource-constrained risk would be
for other members to contribute.
glenn: That's certainly possible, either by contributing spec
ready text or directly in Mercurial.
... It would need some coordination and post processing by me
to ensure editorial consistency.
nigel: If anyone's interested in contributing in this way I
suggest you contact me and/or Glenn
... offline.
Action Items
action-361?
<trackbot> action-361 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Update liaisons
table to include arib -- due 2015-02-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[10]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/361
[10] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/361
<Frans> apologies for being late Frans
<Frans> (phone problems)
close action-361
<trackbot> Closed action-361.
action-368?
<trackbot> action-368 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Update
publication timeline diagram -- due 2015-01-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/368
[11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/368
nigel: Thank you Pierre - that's now uploaded to the
Publications page.
[12]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications
[12] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications
pal: I noticed that we moved the FPWD back but not the CR date
- is that intentional and realistic?
glenn: I plan to do a second WD.
pal: We seem to have dropped an intermediate WD before CR.
... It's useful for people who plan to comment to understand
when is the best time to do so.
... If the March 24th WD is the equivalent to LC then that's
useful - it indicates how much work
... needs to be done.
nigel: I see what you mean - also we have an F2F on 9th and
10th April now which we didn't have
... in the calendar before we put this plan together. It would
seem odd to prevent ourselves from
... discussing our largest deliverable because we've already
gone to a WD for wide review!
... I think we should move the WD for wide review to after our
F2F now. Thoughts anyone?
glenn: +1
jdsmith: +1
tmichel: Under the new process the important date is when we
move to CR as WDs are quick to
... publish.
nigel: In our experience though the last WD is important
because it's when we explicitly seek
... wide review.
pal: So the Mar 24 would be a WD but without seeking wide
review, then another one in late April
... or early May for the equivalent to LC?
nigel: Any other constraints on dates for the final WD?
glenn: When we go to CR we have to make sure that there's some
material on every feature that
... we want to include in the spec - we can't add any new
features after CR without going back
... for wide review again. We can always mark CR features as
'at risk' though.
... I prefer to have the CR version clear. Right now there are
two areas that are underspecified:
... 1) the HTML mapping - I've been creating material for that
based on my implementation work.
... 2) validation processing - some of the semantics around the
newer profiling system.
... More material is needed on conditional expression features
and on the media offset semantics
... issue. Those are the ones that come to mind as needing
work.
nigel: I propose May 4th for the WD for wide review, for the
diagram, for the time being.
action-368: This needs an update again, to move the WD on TTML2
to May 5th/7th.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-368 Update publication
timeline diagram.
reopen action-368
<trackbot> Re-opened action-368.
action-369?
<trackbot> action-369 -- Nigel Megitt to Collate smpte issues
and draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a
precursor to a liaison -- due 2015-02-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/369
[13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/369
action-369: nigel to update based on responses from last week
<trackbot> Notes added to action-369 Collate smpte issues and
draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a precursor to
a liaison.
reopen action-369
<trackbot> Re-opened action-369.
action-373?
<trackbot> action-373 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Consider how
to process and make available the dece test criteria provided
-- due 2015-02-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/373
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/373
nigel: I think pal has added these to the IMSC 1 test suite.
pal: I've started doing this - I wanted to make sure folk were
happy with the approach.
<pal>
[15]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_Implementation_Repo
rt#Tests
[15] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_Implementation_Report#Tests
<pal>
[16]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-ww-profiles/t
estsuite/narratives/Solekai022_854_29_640x75_MaxSdSubtitle_v7_s
ubtitles/3.html
[16] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-ww-profiles/testsuite/narratives/Solekai022_854_29_640x75_MaxSdSubtitle_v7_subtitles/3.html
pal: If you follow this link it shows the expected output -
it's a copy/paste from the DECE
... contribution.
... I plan to do that for every single one.
nigel: LGTM
action-373: [meeting 2015-02-19] Pierre has considered how, and
the approach looks good.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-373 Consider how to process
and make available the dece test criteria provided.
close action-373
<trackbot> Closed action-373.
<scribe> ACTION: pal Complete processing of DECE test criteria
as per action-373 [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-375 - Complete processing of dece
test criteria as per action-373 [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux -
due 2015-02-26].
action-374?
<trackbot> action-374 -- Glenn Adams to Confirm f2f location
and update wiki and send details to the reflector. -- due
2015-02-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/374
[18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/374
glenn: I just checked at Harrah's and booked - it was $103 per
night on Expedia.
nigel: You can book direct on their website too.
glenn: There's a more up to date hotel next door called Linq
and there's also the Venetian.
... There are lots of hotels round there.
... The meeting room is at Harrah's though. It's an older hotel
so we'll see how it is.
pal: That hotel has two towers, I recommend getting a room in
the renovated one. If you want
... somewhere nice I'd recommend the Paris that's next door.
... It's got a good restaurant too.
glenn: For purposes of landmarks, there's a new 550ft ferris
wheel just behind Harrah's, so look
... for that if you're lost.
nigel: Thanks for the great tips - might be good to put them on
the wiki page!
<glenn> [19]http://www.caesars.com/linq/high-roller.html
[19] http://www.caesars.com/linq/high-roller.html
nigel: If you're able to attend please add your name to the
wiki page. I can create a WBS survey
... but I think the wiki page is probably enough.
close action-374
<trackbot> Closed action-374.
F2F
[as just discussed!]
nigel: If you want any specific agenda items please let me
know. The default at the moment
... is to look at IMSC 1 implementation reports and TTML2 next
WD in the absence of any other
... requests.
Action Items (continued)
action-365?
<trackbot> action-365 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Review
change proposal 21 in the light of closure of issue-229. -- due
2015-01-22 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/365
[20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/365
pal: There's a bunch of other related ones because for CP21
some of
... the issues are still open. Issue-231 for example.
... This is the one where the current TTML2 draft does
something differently to what SMPTE
... had suggested. I'm not sure where we ended up. We wanted to
inform SMPTE of our current
... plan.
nigel: That was action-369, which I need to update and resend
based on last week's conversation.
<scribe> ACTION: nigel update CP21 to check current status of
all issues [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-376 - Update cp21 to check current
status of all issues [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-02-26].
Action-365: [meeting 2015-02-19] See also action-369 and the
SMPTE liaison.
<trackbot> Notes added to Action-365 Review change proposal 21
in the light of closure of issue-229..
IMSC Test Suite and Implementation Report
pal: Two issues have been closed, raised by nigel. In the
process of doing that I found a number
... of bugs in the test vectors and have also corrected them.
issue-371?
<trackbot> issue-371 -- linePadding test needs to apply the
background color to the line areas only -- pending review
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/371
[22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/371
nigel: In this you addressed the issue.
pal: I literally copied the proposed text.
issue-372?
<trackbot> issue-372 -- multiRowAlign test applies style via
region -- pending review
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/372
[23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/372
atai: Just a comment on the issues, multiRowAlign especially.
There's a difference in the way
... styles apply in EBU-TT-D and IMSC 1. Nonetheless
semantically it's still possible to reference
... a style from a region. There's no problem semantically I
think. I'm not sure how to deal with
... that in general for IMSC - if it should be allowed to use
the ebuttd attribute on region or inline.
glenn: Just a reminder that if the property is not applicable
to region then it can still be
... specified on region and participate in region inheritance.
If it's not applicable to region
... directly then content will inherit from it.
atai: For multiRowAlign the applicability is the same as for
textAlign, in terms of applicability to
... region.
pal: In EBU Tech3380 it isn't clear exactly what multiRowAlign
is applicable to. I'd recommend to
... clarify that.
... With linePadding there's specific language about which
elements it is applicable to, in contrast
... to multiRowAlign.
... The way I interpreted it is there are two levels of
constraint in EBU-TT-D. First, what elements
... the attributes are applicable to, and secondly, on what
elements they may be specified.
... IMSC 1 doesn't constrain inline styles in the way that
EBU-TT-D does. As I read it you're
... permitted more latitude in IMSC 1 in where you can specify
the attributes than in EBU-TT-D.
atai: I agree with that.
pal: What's missing in EBU-TT-D is what elements multiRowAlign
is applicable to.
atai: I have to check that it states that it can apply to the
same elements as tts:textAlign.
... Regarding the comments from nigel, to be more consistent
with what IMSC is doing it would
... be odd not to allow it to be specified like the other style
attributes. Nigel's comments re
... EBU-TT-D about not adding styling inline is correct.
nigel: I think if we want to allow the ebutts style attributes
in other locations in IMSC 1 then the
... expansion relative to EBU-TT-D needs to be explicitly
stated.
glenn: In TTML2 the style attribute must be specified on the
span directly for padding and can
... not be inherited.
pal: Maybe, ideally, IMSC 1 should only reference the annexes
in EBU Tech3380. Then if the
... annexes could include the constraints on which elements
each of those attributes apply
... then it would work perfectly.
atai: At the moment we don't plan any updates other than for
big errors.
pal: okay I'll update only IMSC 1 then.
atai: The applicability of those elements is maybe clear to us,
but the other issue of where they
... can be specified on content may be different. If we want to
allow specification of the attributes
... inline for example then we need to specify that in IMSC 1.
pal: yes.
... If we agree that this is reasonable then I'm happy to
clarify that.
<scribe> ACTION: atai2 Capture the EBU-TT-D style attributes
issue on IMSC 1 and raise an issue [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-377 - Capture the ebu-tt-d style
attributes issue on imsc 1 and raise an issue [on Andreas Tai -
due 2015-02-26].
nigel: We're out of time! Meet again same time next week.
Thanks very much everyone. [adjourns meeting]
close issue-371
<trackbot> Closed issue-371.
close issue-372
<trackbot> Closed issue-372.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: atai2 Capture the EBU-TT-D style attributes issue
on IMSC 1 and raise an issue [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: nigel update CP21 to check current status of all
issues [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: pal Complete processing of DECE test criteria as
per action-373 [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 19 February 2015 16:25:29 UTC