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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2015-02-12

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 16:31:18 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D102850C.1AFCC%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks to all who attended today's meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-tt-minutes.html

Please note that we have confirmed in all but the final details that we will hold our next face to face meeting, focused mainly on the topics of IMSC 1 and TTML2, in Las Vegas on April 9th and 10th – details to come later today.

Text format minutes:


      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

12 Feb 2015

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-tt-irc


          nigel, jdsmith, glenn, tmichel

          frans, pal




     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This meeting
         2. [5]Action Items
         3. [6]F2F
         4. [7]Change Proposals
         5. [8]Issues
     * [9]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 12 February 2015

   <scribe> scribeNick: nigel

This meeting

   nigel: summarises agenda. AOB?

   group: no AOB

   nigel: Since we're around a week later than previously expected
   in publishing the TTML2 FPWD
   ... I've dropped the dates back by a week on the publication

   glenn: Realistically I don't think we'll hit the 5th March date
   for any additional edits deferred from
   ... the FPWD.

   nigel: Okay, the current timeline is "at risk" right now for
   resourcing reasons.

   tmichel: The FPWD should be published later today. The document
   has been redated to Feb 12.
   ... Other than that it's the same. Unfortunately, next time we
   have to send to the webmaster we
   ... have to send it 3 days in advance. On the day is too late.

Action Items

   nigel: I'll come back to Action-369 later because it's really
   about issues.


   <trackbot> action-370 -- Nigel Megitt to Send dece liaison
   asking for imsc 1 test criteria -- due 2015-02-12 --


     [10] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/370

   action-370: Mike has responded and included the requested

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-370 Send dece liaison asking
   for imsc 1 test criteria.

   close action-370

   <trackbot> Closed action-370.

   <scribe> ACTION: pal Consider how to process and make available
   the DECE test criteria provided [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-373 - Consider how to process and
   make available the dece test criteria provided [on
   Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2015-02-19].


   <trackbot> action-371 -- Nigel Megitt to Create a meeting page
   on the wiki for the f2f -- due 2015-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/371

   nigel: Thierry kindly did this. The page is at

     [13] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015

   close action-371

   <trackbot> Closed action-371.


   <trackbot> action-372 -- Nigel Megitt to Review requirements
   conformance in Annex L of TTML2 -- due 2015-02-17 -- OPEN


     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/372

   nigel: I raised this in the week because I noticed that Annex L
   needs to be updated. I've done
   ... a first pass analysis but not sure where to take it from
   there - anyone else want to take it on?

   glenn: Thanks for doing that - it looks good at a high level.
   When I get to the point of doing the
   ... update I'll focus on the current analysis and comment at
   that time if there's any difference of
   ... opinion.

   close action-372

   <trackbot> Closed action-372.

   nigel: I've just raised issue-370 to implement the changes
   indicated by the analysis in Action-372.

   reopen issue-370

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-370.

   nigel: Related to this is Issue-369 which also includes an edit
   to that section


   <trackbot> issue-369 -- The R### numbers in Annex L are not all
   correct -- raised


     [15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/369

   reopen issue-369

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-369.


   glenn: I've got a proposal for Harrah's on the 9th and 10th
   which I think will be okay, and am
   ... getting an alternate quote. I think we'll succeed in this.
   ... I'll look to wrap this up by the end of today so we can

   tmichel: Usually the F2F meeting dates and locations should be
   defined 8 weeks in advance.

   jdsmith: We're 8 weeks exactly from 9th April today.

   tmichel: If someone is unhappy with the schedule they could
   veto if there's less than 8 weeks notice.

   <scribe> ACTION: glenn confirm F2F location and update wiki and
   send details to the reflector. [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-374 - Confirm f2f location and update
   wiki and send details to the reflector. [on Glenn Adams - due

   <inserted> nigel: To meet the 8 week notice period Action-374
   needs to be completed today.

Change Proposals

   nigel: I just want to note that we had some CPs that were
   marked as needing to be done before
   ... FPWD but they weren't fully completed - however we did
   discuss them and considered that
   ... they were complete enough to proceed with FPWD albeit
   requiring further work.
   ... So I reassigned all of them to Priority 2 instead.

   glenn: Fine with me - I was going to suggest the same.



   <trackbot> action-369 -- Nigel Megitt to Collate smpte issues
   and draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a
   precursor to a liaison -- due 2015-02-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/369

   nigel: Pierre suggested this action. In doing it I had some
   queries and also noted that we have
   ... a clear disposition and completion on the issues for most
   of the requests from SMPTE.
   ... The first query is on Ruby annotations. I'm not clear if
   we've fully or only partially met the request.

   glenn: I can only assert that I think I've met the
   requirements. It's up to the requestor to identify
   ... if that's not the case.



     [18] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Feb/0015.html

   glenn: On the Ruby, we do have position before and after, and
   also a third option "around", which
   ... came up when analysing Japanese usage for 2-line captions -
   Ruby on 1st line is "before" and
   ... on 2nd line is "after". I don't know about >2 lines so I
   adopted all-but-last line: "before".
   ... The offset is not constrained to -1em. It could go to
   -infinity. So both of those points are met.

   nigel: The second query is whether or not mixed
   vertical-horizontal progression direction
   ... requires the use of tts:textOrientation?

   glenn: It does not requires the use of tts:textOrientation, but
   it may take it into account in
   ... producing the result.

   nigel: So with horizontal in vertical you don't have to fix up
   the orientation of the horizontal,
   ... it happens automatically?

   glenn: That's correct.
   ... There was some discussion about the em square, because the
   examples from SMPTE show
   ... a horizontal segment that extends outside of the bounds of
   the line area. I pointed out to Pierre
   ... that the language re formatting is rather vague and its
   implementation dependent how it
   ... reduces the font size or changes the line height to make it
   fit. I'm sure Pierre will want to
   ... express a view on this at some point.

   nigel: Thanks, I think I'm clear on the disposition now.

   glenn: Your question is interesting though - let's say that
   there's a span with tts:textOrientation of
   ... sideways and a tts:textCombine, would that say to the
   client, "don't attempt to lay it out horizontally"?
   ... That would sort of counter-act the request for the
   textCombine. That's an interesting open
   ... question - I don't even know if the CSS folks have thought
   of that point.
   ... It wouldn't hurt for us to liaise with them at the right
   point, after we've worked out what
   ... we think it should do on this point. For example, I raised
   the Ruby offset property with them
   ... and they're starting to address that point but they're
   doing it in a different way than I would
   ... have expected. They want to use the relative positioning
   mechanism that's already in CSS to
   ... handle that. I'm leaving ruby offset in as we've specced

   nigel: Thanks for that! I don't think we're quorate to close
   Pending Review issues now. Anything
   ... else on the above before I adjourn?

   glenn: I think the draft dispositions is good as it will help
   us respond.

   nigel: Team effort - Pierre suggested it, I did it, you
   clarified the answers!

   <tmichel> Bye

   nigel: Thanks everyone - meet again same time next week.
   [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: glenn confirm F2F location and update wiki and
   send details to the reflector. [recorded in
   [NEW] ACTION: pal Consider how to process and make available
   the DECE test criteria provided [recorded in

   [End of minutes]

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Received on Thursday, 12 February 2015 16:31:49 UTC

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