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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2015-02-05

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2015 16:14:35 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <D0F94737.1A964%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's meeting. Minutes in HTML format are at: http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html


In text format:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

05 Feb 2015

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          nigel, jdsmith, glenn, pal, tmichel

   Regrets
          atai, Frans

   Chair
          nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]This meeting
         2. [5]Liaisons
         3. [6]Face 2 Face
         4. [7]TTML2 FPWD publication
         5. [8]IMSC Test Suite
         6. [9]Issues
     * [10]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 05 February 2015

   <scribe> chair: nigel

   <scribe> scribeNick: nigel

This meeting

   nigel: Add to the agenda the DVB liaison message
   ... AOB?

   group: No AOB

   nigel: Also add TTML2 FPWD publication
   ... I suggest we do external stuff first (liaisons), the F2F,
   then the FPWD publication

Liaisons

   action-360?

   <trackbot> action-360 -- Nigel Megitt to Send liaison request
   on behalf of w3c ttwg to arib -- due 2014-12-18 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/360


     [11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/360


   close action-360

   <trackbot> Closed action-360.

   nigel: We've also had a liaison from DVB

   [12]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jan/0072

   .html

     [12] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jan/0072.html


   nigel: Goes through the message from DVB
   ... It seems that in the context of IMSC 1 we can acknowledge
   this and offer continuing assistance.
   ... However there's a constituency in this WG who may wish to
   make additional comments
   ... regarding WebVTT. So I propose we do not draft a response
   immediately but raise this
   ... possibility on the reflector.

   pal: I think we just need to thank DVB for the message.

   nigel: I sent a simple acknowledgement of receipt - I'll
   forward it to the member list.
   ... It's now at
   [13]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2015Feb/0001

   .html

     [13] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-tt/2015Feb/0001.html


   pal: I think that's sufficient.

   nigel: Apologies for not sending that to the member reflector
   earlier.

   action-369?

   <trackbot> action-369 -- Nigel Megitt to Collate smpte issues
   and draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a
   precursor to a liaison -- due 2015-02-05 -- OPEN

   <trackbot>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/369


     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/369


   This is a work in progress - I'm going through it at the
   moment.

   nigel: I've collated the issues together and need to go through
   TTML2 to derive the draft
   ... dispositions.

   pal: We should respond to the member comments about the DECE
   tests, which don't include
   ... the expected results, so a brief message asking for those
   test criteria would be worthwhile.

   nigel: Thanks pal for the draft words - I'm happy to send that
   as is, to our liaison, who is Mike.

   <scribe> ACTION: nigel Send DECE liaison asking for IMSC 1 test
   criteria [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-370 - Send dece liaison asking for
   imsc 1 test criteria [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-02-12].

Face 2 Face

   nigel: We discussed this last week - any updates on hosting?

   jdsmith: I'm discussing this still and am optimistic. 9th and
   10th April?

   nigel: Yes. those are the dates.

   glenn: I have a tentative approval to look into it by a funding
   source so I need to contact
   ... a couple of hotels in Vegas and get a price on a room for
   budget assessment.
   ... I'll do that today or tomorrow.

   jdsmith: If I were hosting it would be in Redmond.

   nigel: It seems a bit more practical for some folk if we are in
   Vegas so I propose to make that
   ... the primary location, and if it isn't available then we
   take Jerry's kind offer secondarily.

   jdsmith: Sure. I'll line it up just in case.

   nigel: Just checking, is it okay for a non-member org to
   sponsor this?

   tmichel: I don't see why it would be a problem - I'll get back
   to you in a few days.

   nigel: Is Netflix a member of W3C?

   several: yes they are

   <scribe> ACTION: nigel Create a meeting page on the wiki for
   the F2F [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-371 - Create a meeting page on the
   wiki for the f2f [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-02-12].

TTML2 FPWD publication

   nigel: Glenn has provided a zip with the FPWD in. It has some
   link errors to rectify.

   glenn: I'll process those this morning, and then provide a
   publishable version suitable for
   ... publication on the 10th.

   tmichel: There are also namespace issues as well as the broken
   links. Maybe put some special
   ... placeholder text in for the namespace?

   glenn: I'll handle that - it should be easy enough. Just a
   reminder - we're not changing the
   ... namespace for TTML2. It's the same as TTML1. So we may not
   need to do anything there.

   tmichel: Thank you. Apart from that the publication request is
   ready to go as soon as I receive
   ... the edited draft. So send it to me by email as an
   attachment or something like that.

   glenn: okay.

IMSC Test Suite

   pal: I think the next step is to request the additional
   information from DECE and then I think
   ... it will be substantially complete, so maybe we can discuss
   how to reach out more formally
   ... to other organisations to suggest that they come and try
   it. It would be good to wait for the
   ... extra information from DECE.

Issues

   issue-210?

   <trackbot> issue-210 -- The values for alpha in rgba() don't
   correspond to CSS3 Color definitions -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/210


     [17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/210


   glenn: We did the RGBA values before CSS3 color was finalised -
   this has to do with the alpha
   ... values. When CSS got around to doing RGBA they used 0-255
   values for alpha, which is different.
   ... I propose to close this without action because this can be
   dealt with as part of the process
   ... to map to HTML/CSS. It's worth emphasising the difference
   in the text to make authors and
   ... users aware of it.

   nigel: Is it in the text now?

   glenn: There's no note that emphasises the difference. I could
   add that easily enough.

   nigel: I agree it's helpful to put that in.

   reopen issue-210

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-210.

   issue-210: [meeting 2015-02-05] Resolution is to add an
   editorial note to readers highlighting the difference in scale
   of alpha value.

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-210 The values for alpha in
   rgba() don't correspond to CSS3 Color definitions.

   issue-224?

   <trackbot> issue-224 -- Support text placement in 3D coordinate
   spaces (not zIndex compositing). -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/224


     [18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/224


   glenn: It's my intention to update the tts:disparity to permit
   negative values now.

   nigel: Negative values make the image appear further away.

   pal: That's correct - it has to be used sparingly though for
   viewer comfort. To be clear, I'd look
   ... at the SMPTE spec which is consistent with the CEA spec
   too.

   nigel: It's also consistent in sign with the ETSI spec.

   issue-224: [meeting 2015-02-05] Needs to support negative
   values.

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-224 Support text placement in
   3D coordinate spaces (not zIndex compositing)..

   reopen issue-224

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-224.

   issue-283?

   <trackbot> issue-283 -- Deterministic text wrapping and
   presentation -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/283


     [19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/283


   nigel: Glenn's proposal is that the option of downloadable
   fonts gets us as far as we can along
   ... this path. I don't have any further proposals.

   glenn: I noticed that there's a notice from pal from Nov 2013
   to add informative text on controlling
   ... line breaks. I didn't notice that before. Is there any
   specific wording?

   pal: I can imagine that the wording should be something along
   the lines that line breaks
   ... should be manually inserted with <br>s to achieve the
   desired expectation?

   nigel: If you set tts:wrap="noWrap" then it's true that this
   defines the line breaks completely.

   glenn: I'm not averse to adding a note here.

   pal: So maybe that note isn't so useful because of that.

   nigel: From my perspective it would be worth highlighting that
   fonts are helpful but not the
   ... whole story. The author might want to leave some extra
   margin for safety to ensure that the
   ... region is big enough to hold the text as the author
   intended it to be displayed.
   ... This is regardless of the use of automatic or manual line
   breaks.

   glenn: I can imagine adding a note to the section that
   describes UAX14 wrapping.
   ... It's §11.3.2.
   ... "Line Layout". We could add a note under that, for
   authorial techniques for dealing with line
   ... breaks.

   nigel: I think that's a good idea - it's helpful to provide
   information to minimise the impact of
   ... undefined implementation algorithms.

   issue-283: [meeting 2015-02-05] Resolution: add an editorial
   note to guide authors and implementors to §11.3.2 Line Layout.

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-283 Deterministic text wrapping
   and presentation.

   reopen issue-283

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-283.

   issue-289

   <trackbot> issue-289 -- For TTML created for overlay on top of
   video, signal the aspect ratio of the video the TTML was
   created for -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/289


     [20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/289


   glenn: For both this one and issue-290 I added a ttm:item name
   that are in the current draft for review.
   ... It was my intention that those metadata items will address
   this issue.
   ... Also, it's somewhat related to the new ttp:parameter called
   storageAspectRatio so they could
   ... be viewed as related and some additional text may be needed
   to both places in the document
   ... to explain why both exist and how they relate to each other
   and what the usage is.
   ... The format doesn't explain the value syntax - that's tbd.

   nigel: That holds it up though - we need that to complete the
   issue.

   glenn: We have an Editorial Note for this so that's not needed.

   nigel: I'm happy with the process overhead of keeping the issue
   open
   ... I think there's a review comment on this that the syntax is
   important - to do.
   ... Thanks all, have a good week until we meet again, same time
   next week. [adjourns meeting]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: nigel Create a meeting page on the wiki for the
   F2F [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action02]
   [NEW] ACTION: nigel Send DECE liaison asking for IMSC 1 test
   criteria [recorded in
   [22]http://www.w3.org/2015/02/05-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Received on Thursday, 5 February 2015 16:15:09 UTC

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