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{minutes} TTWG Meeting 22/5/2014

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 15:07:47 +0000
To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <CFA3D15A.1E285%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Available at: http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

22 May 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          pal, nigel, mike, jdsmith, frans

   Regrets
          glenn

   Chair
          nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]MPEG liaison re MIME Codecs parameter
         2. [5]F2F Planning
         3. [6]Profile updates this week
         4. [7]Issues discussed and raised over the past week
            (selected subset)
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 22 May 2014

   <scribe> scribeNick: nigel

MPEG liaison re MIME Codecs parameter

   nigel: The thread has been quite hard to follow

   mike: Everything that's in MPEG related to TTML came from the
   CFF work. It would be helpful to go through what we did and
   wanted to achieve, to clarify the current state.
   ... Maybe if Dave and/or Cyril can join us they can capture
   what the MPEG request is.

   nigel: I managed to add to issue-305 the topic areas and Mike's
   sense of priority/ordering on them but still need to tease
   requirements out if I can.

   mike: It'll be tough because lots of it stems from DECE work
   that ended up in MPEG and that's not on the thread at all.
   ... Maybe I should start drafting something and then nigel and
   I can see if we have everything that we know of covered, as a
   good starting point.
   ... Some of the reasons I've been remembering are the inability
   to represent strict subsets of TTML features - you're forced
   into extension namespace which then implies lack of
   compatibility with TTML features
   ... which there's no way to do today. That's an open issue with
   the profile mechanism.
   ... These gaps/errors in the profile mechanism as currently
   defined lead to the current MPEG solution.

   pal: I'd encourage the two of you to get together so that the
   effort to capture the requirement does capture the background.

   mike: For example tts:colour - it's an unresolved issue that a
   strict subset of the TTML feature can not be defined.

   pal: We discussed this in Shenzhen but not sure if there's a
   resolution.

   nigel: So to summarise there's no way to define a feature as a
   strict subset of another feature.

   mike: Without going to incredibly fine grained feature
   definitions this can't be done.
   ... There should be an action item if there isn't one to go
   through all the features and check that they match the prose in
   TTML.

   nigel: That's related to the work needed to define tests, if we
   continue with the original approach.

   <scribe> ACTION: mike Describe the history for how we got to
   the signalling needed for MPEG that came from DECE for
   ISSUE-305. [recorded in
   [9]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-290 - Describe the history for how we
   got to the signalling needed for mpeg that came from dece for
   issue-305. [on Mike Dolan - due 2014-05-29].

   action-290: Nigel to add any requirements from other places.

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-290 Describe the history for
   how we got to the signalling needed for mpeg that came from
   dece for issue-305..

   <scribe> ACTION: nigel Find the related issue that describes
   the need to restrict or extend individual profile features
   [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action02]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-291 - Find the related issue that
   describes the need to restrict or extend individual profile
   features [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-05-29].

F2F Planning

   action-289?

   <trackbot> action-289 -- Nigel Megitt to Create a wiki page for
   the september f2f with a draft agenda and an 'intention to
   attend' section. -- due 2014-05-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/289

     [11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/289

   nigel: I've created the wiki page at
   [12]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014
   ... Describes agenda as listed on web page.

     [12] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/geneva2014

   mike: Day 2 conflicts with the SMPTE meetings - it would be
   helpful to schedule breakouts on day 2 30 days out so that mike
   and pal (at least) can work out their optimal attendance.
   ... I can come back to you with the SMPTE meeting details for
   17th about a month before so that we can schedule this.

   close action-289

   <trackbot> Closed action-289.

Profile updates this week

   nigel: This really needs Glenn but there's one small part I
   think we can cover.
   ... This is the default for @validationAction which is
   currently "abort" and mandatory.
   ... Proposal is to make it "warn" so that processors can
   attempt to display document by default, and also to make it a
   recommendation to the processor rather than mandatory.

   pal: Does this fully capture Glenn's take on TTML2 or is there
   further work required? We can wait until he's on a call before
   answering this.
   ... I need to review the rest of this work before coming to a
   conclusion on this.

   mike: We need Glenn for this.

   nigel: Okay we'll defer this proposal until we can bring Glenn
   in.

Issues discussed and raised over the past week (selected subset)

   issue-309?

   <trackbot> issue-309 -- Image profile needs to permit text
   equivalent -- raised

   <trackbot>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/309

     [13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/309

   pal: We can add a recommendation that when images are
   distributed then text should also be distributed as a separate
   version of the document alongside if the requirement for text
   exists.
   ... It's not required for all applications. The specification
   does not prevent that.

   nigel: I'd need to see the explanatory text on this.

   mike: If there is a requirement, then I'm okay with adding the
   ability to add text to the image profile.
   ... We need to see the good reason or requirement for this
   though.

   pal: I'll add a note as a first step a paragraph explaining how
   the requirements to accompany images with text can be
   accomplished by including an image profile and a text profile
   alongside the same media object.

   mike: I don't think that's the requirement. This has a long
   history and there are some unusual agendas at play.

   issue-310?

   <trackbot> issue-310 -- Forward reference rule doesn't take
   into account child elements -- raised

   <trackbot>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/310

     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/310

   pal: The idea here is that just using a SAX parser you can
   render the document as you get a call back for every single
   node, without waiting until the entire document has been parsed
   prior to rendering.
   ... I'll have a go at rewording to express this section better.

   issue-312?

   <trackbot> issue-312 -- forcedDisplay attribute is metadata so
   should be in ttm not tts namespace -- raised

   <trackbot>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312

     [15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/312

   open issue-312

   nigel: This needs some wording that describes what the
   processor needs to do.

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: mike Describe the history for how we got to the
   signalling needed for MPEG that came from DECE for ISSUE-305.
   [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action01]
   [NEW] ACTION: nigel Find the related issue that describes the
   need to restrict or extend individual profile features
   [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2014/05/22-tt-minutes.html#action02]

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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