- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2014 15:06:54 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CF59EEAA.1B5F6%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Minutes available at: http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-tt-minutes.html
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
27 Mar 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/27-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
glenn, nigel, pal, plh, jdsmith, Frans_EBU
Regrets
tmichel
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Charter
2. [5]IMSC approach proposal (PAL)
3. [6]TPAC 2014
4. [7]Action Items
5. [8]Issues discussed over the last week
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 27 March 2014
<glenn> getting coffee, brb
<plh>
[10]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2014Jan
Mar/0069.html
[10] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ac-members/2014JanMar/0069.html
<plh> [11]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html
Charter
<scribe> scribeNick: nigel
plh: Process: after 45 days people who didn't rejoin the group
will be automatically kicked out. The 45 days start today.
... members need to go back to their AC rep and tell them to
rejoin - should allow simple one click reappointment
nigel: Section 6 of the charter has a revised Decision Policy
... motivation is to clarify the situation especially as we
will have two modes of working.
plh: this allows for better asynchronous decision making and
has been adopted in other groups too.
... that's why it says 'for 10 days decisions are provisional'.
We expect the WebVTT part of the group to work more
asynchronously.
nigel: Thanks for doing the new charter!
plh: I made one small edit to the milestones - the TTML2 CR
milestone is pushed back by one month to take into account the
August 'dead month'
... and the WebVTT milestones were pushed by 3 months.
<plh> [12]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/ttml-diff.html
[12] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/ttml-diff.html
plh: this is the link to a diff from the AC review version of
the charter.
IMSC approach proposal (PAL)
pal: the plan so far for IMSC had been for IMSC to reference
TTML2. We still have a long list of issues to resolve so it
looks like it won't be ready when we intended it to be ready,
which
... means that IMSC would be delayed, according to the current
plan. THere are some users of IMSC that are really interested
in it in its current form,
... and there are other users that are interested in it in a
more extended form that would be dependent on TTML2.
... So I've been exploring a plan to deliver IMSC 1.0 based on
TTML1 and follow up with IMSC 2.0 to go alongside TTML2.
... IMSC 1.0 could go today and there are implementations to
demonstrate it. As TTML2 makes progress we'll work on IMSC 2.0
and publish that when it's ready.
... I've not heard any fundamental obstacles. The first step in
the plan is to see if there's any reason not to go ahead with
it.
... Then start the process by publishing IMSC 1.0 as a FPWD and
get started on it.
nigel: notes that the charter milestones didn't push IMSC to
match the end point of TTML2
plh: agrees that he didn't
... I'm no longer allowed to touch the charter!
nigel: Decision to deliver IMSC as two versions, v2.0 to
roughly match TTML2 in milestones.
pal: I'm assuming that we won't get surprises in comments but
maybe we will. I can start working on tweaking the current ED
to match the new direction
... and to get the ED ready for a FPWD.
nigel: it would be good to have a summary document describing
the publication approach for IMSC either to put on the wiki or
publish as a note.
Action pal to draft a summary document on the wiki and post a
link to it on the reflector
<trackbot> Created ACTION-277 - Draft a summary document on the
wiki and post a link to it on the reflector [on Pierre-Anthony
Lemieux - due 2014-04-03].
TPAC 2014
[13]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TPAC2014Planning/
[13] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TPAC2014Planning/
nigel: if members could respond to this then that would be
helpful.
glenn: I think there should be a f2f and quite liked the Monday
and Friday schedule, which was the least disruptive with
respect to other groups.
nigel: the poll closes on 1st May and we can make the decision
in May.
action-274?
<trackbot> action-274 -- Nigel Megitt to Discuss with david
singer possibilities for f2f before going ahead and adding ttwg
to tpac agenda. -- due 2014-03-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/274
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/274
action-274: discussions have begun, still ongoing.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-274 Discuss with david singer
possibilities for f2f before going ahead and adding ttwg to
tpac agenda..
Action Items
action-276?
<trackbot> action-276 -- Nigel Megitt to Request tracker
default change to 'email' -- due 2014-03-27 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/276
[15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/276
plh: I will find the request and ping them.
Issues discussed over the last week
action-215?
<trackbot> action-215 -- Glenn Adams to Specify special
semantics for tts:{extent, origin} on content elements to map
to new inline region feature -- due 2014-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/215
[16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/215
issue-176?
<trackbot> issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin
attributes on block elements -- pending review
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
[17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
<glenn>
[18]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2.h
tml
[18] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html
glenn: this is technical and substantive - you can view it at
the currently published ED link
... the main changes are in the terminology section 2.2 to
define 'implied inline region' - there's already an 'inline
region'
... and in the section 7.1.4 and 7.1.5 on div and p, wording on
extent and origin creating an inline region.
... there's a matching change in the styling definition of
tts:extent and tts:origin in 8.2.8 and 8.2.15 I added div and p
as elements that the style attribute applies to
... and added a paragraph on each of those sections.
... The follow ons are in section 9.3.2 which is empty at the
moment and I need to fill it in and discuss Implied Inline
Regions here.
... finally in Appendix D.1 I've added an editorial note to add
features for these.
... I applied this to both div and p though the original
proposal was for p only. Both are block level elements that can
generate regions so they should
... both have the opportunity to use implied inline regions.
nigel: what's the order of precedence if both a region
reference and an extent and origin are specified?
glenn: it's possible to have more than one region already on a
content element so this would map the content to all the
regions including the inline implied region.
... I need to deal with those semantics in the tbs section
9.3.2. As a placeholder in the meantime I'll make an action.
<glenn> action glenn to add EDNOTE to 9.3.2 with reminder to
deal with case of having multiple inline regions possibly with
additional reference to out-of-line region
<trackbot> Created ACTION-278 - Add ednote to 9.3.2 with
reminder to deal with case of having multiple inline regions
possibly with additional reference to out-of-line region [on
Glenn Adams - due 2014-04-03].
glenn: I've added this to the change list document
<glenn>
[19]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2-c
hanges.html
[19] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml2/spec/ttml2-changes.html
nigel: you've also updated CP2 to a PENDING REVIEW state
glenn: and I added a Resolution section.
nigel: Jerry you own CP2 so please could you review?
[20]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002
[20] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002
issue-285?
<trackbot> issue-285 -- Align rendered rows within a region to
each other, and the set to the region -- open
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/285
[21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/285
[22]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#multiple_row
_alignment_.28flex_box_in_CSS_mapping.29
[22] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#multiple_row_alignment_.28flex_box_in_CSS_mapping.29
nigel: I added use of the justify-content property and the
mapping from multiRowAlign values
Issue-286?
<trackbot> Issue-286 -- Extend the background area behind
rendered text to improve readability -- open
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/286
[23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/286
[24]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#box-decorati
on-break
[24] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015#box-decoration-break
nigel: last week pierre asked: Are TTML 1 processors expected
to ignore TTML 2 attributes that are in the same namespace at
TTML 1? Is this the case in practice?
glenn: what the spec says and what processors do and should do
are separate questions.
... we'll probably need to put something in the conformance
section of TTML2 on this subject and we may need to add some
details to the abstract document type filtering mechanism
... that filters out foreign namespace. The normal behaviour
should be to ignore anything not understood as long as it can
still be parsed.
... A TTML1 doc with TTML2 features is not valid, strictly. But
a TTML2 doc would be fine - then how does a TTML1 processor
deal with that?
... We're not going to use a new namespace for TTML2 but extend
the existing one so we need something in the document itself
stating that it was
... authored with TTML2 features in mind. I believe there's a
proposal to add a version attribute e.g. ttp:version to do just
that. I haven't thought
... further than that.
... I will try to dig out the issue on this.
... this is Issue-276
[25]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/276
[25] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/276
glenn: issue-203 is closed but also relevant. It added
ttp:version to TTML2
issue-302?
<trackbot> issue-302 -- Should background of a span be height
of text in line or computed lineHeight? -- raised
<trackbot>
[26]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/302
[26] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/302
glenn: I did some testing on this and verified that CSS
behaviour results in backgrounds on spans that do not extend to
the height of the line box
... that seemed to be consistent across browsers. What I don't
recall is what I had implemented in the dfxp viewer because
this came up then.
... It's not very well defined in CSS, what the right answer
is. We do have the mapping to HTML/CSS issue. If we rely on CSS
to implement
... the formatting we're going to work out how to live with
this.
... notes that EBU-TT has already extended TTML to include
padding. This isn't particularly easy to use.
issue-303?
<trackbot> issue-303 -- Permit HTML-style <a> elements to
contain href links -- raised
<trackbot>
[27]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/303
[27] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/303
nigel: we don't have time to discuss this now!
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [28]scribe.perl version
1.138 ([29]CVS log)
$Date: 2014-03-27 15:04:17 $
__________________________________________________________
----------------------------
http://www.bbc.co.uk
This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately.
Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to this.
---------------------
Received on Thursday, 27 March 2014 15:07:29 UTC