{minutes} TTWG Meeting 30/01/2014

Available at: http://www.w3.org/2014/01/30-tt-minutes.html


      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

30 Jan 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/30-tt-irc


          Nigel_Megitt, Glenn_Adams, Thierry_Michel,
          Frans_de_Jong, Pierre_Lemieux, Jerry_Smith

          Mike, Dolan, plh


          pal, nigel


     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]IANA Registration of TTML media type
         2. [5]Charter
         3. [6]Line Height stacking and calculation
         4. [7]Remaining Pending Review actions
         5. [8]Pending Review Issues
         6. [9]Change Proposals
         7. [10]AOB
     * [11]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 30 January 2014

   <glenn> morning

   <tmichel> I am unable to join Zakim from the ERCIM office for
   unknow reason ...

   <tmichel> Keep trying ...

   <nigel> will try to keep IRC up to date

   <nigel> scribeNick: pal

IANA Registration of TTML media type

   <nigel> plh has been at CSS meetings and may be at SVG meeting

   <glenn> [12]http://www.w3.org/2013/09/ttml1-errata.html

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2013/09/ttml1-errata.html

   <nigel> glenn: copied appendix C into the Errata, and changed
   the encoding to binary.

   <nigel> action-88?

   <trackbot> action-88 -- Glenn Adams to Make sure the TTML media
   type is properly registered for Issue-175. -- due 2013-10-31 --


     [13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/88

   <nigel> action-88: Errata now updated. Mike to check and if
   looking good to resubmit to IANA.

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-88 Make sure the TTML media
   type is properly registered for Issue-175..

   <nigel> glenn: reassigning the action to Mike Dolan


   <nigel> nigel: Following emails over the last week or two the
   charter will be reverted to use the normal license, i.e. not
   adopt the HTML experimental license for VTT.

   <nigel> ... It's hoped that this will mitigate a likely AC

   <nigel> ... Philippe will take this to AC no later than Feb 5.

   <nigel> action-248?

   <trackbot> action-248 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Add atsc to the
   ttml charter -- due 2013-12-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/248

   <nigel> [15]http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html

     [15] http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html

   <nigel> NB this has not yet been edited to remove the VTT
   experimental license wording.

   <nigel> close action-248

   <trackbot> Closed action-248.

   <nigel> action-259?

   <trackbot> action-259 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Add ebu wording
   in charter -- due 2014-01-23 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/259

   <nigel> close action-259

   <trackbot> Closed action-259.

Line Height stacking and calculation

   <nigel> action-260?

   <trackbot> action-260 -- Nigel Megitt to Email group notifying
   of this change and initiating formal approval -- due 2014-01-23


     [17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/260

   <nigel> close action-260

   <trackbot> Closed action-260.

   <nigel> nigel: pal asked if it would be back-ported to TTML1.
   The answer was no.

   <glenn> i have a call on the side, so will be back in a few

   <nigel> nigel: no further queries therefore group accepts
   glenn's algorithm proposal.

   <nigel> pal: I asked a question to glenn for an example of how
   we would expect a paragraph with a lineHeight of 125% and a
   fontSize of 10% and a span of 48px font size. How would we
   expect it to look?

   For instance, how do we expect <p tts:fontSize="10px"

   tts: fontFamily="arial" tts:lineHeight="125%"><span
   ... fontSize="48px">...</span>...</p> to behave, e.g. will the

   of each line be the same and, if so, what will the value be? If

   tts: lineHeight="125%" and tts:fontSize="10px", what will be
   the height

   of three lines?


     [18] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2014Jan/0022.html


     [19] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#style-attribute-lineHeight

   <nigel> nigel: the proposed algorithm is for
   lineHeight="normal" so that's a separate issue.

   <nigel> nigel: Jerry were you able to confirm this in IE?

   <nigel> jdsmith: I sent glenn some screenshots. IE11 matches
   the behaviour of Chrome.

   <nigel> ... on both Windows 8 and Windows 7. Glenn responded
   that this confirmed his expectation. There were some alignment
   differences in previous versions of IE.

   <nigel> action on glenn to take algorithm from TTML2 ED 8.2.13
   tts:lineHeight to CSS WG for review and potential adoption.

   <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register
   nicknames at

     [20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users%3E.

   <nigel> action glenn to take algorithm from TTML2 ED 8.2.13
   tts:lineHeight to CSS WG for review and potential adoption.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-265 - Take algorithm from ttml2 ed
   8.2.13 tts:lineheight to css wg for review and potential
   adoption. [on Glenn Adams - due 2014-02-06].

Remaining Pending Review actions

   <nigel> action-164?

   <trackbot> action-164 -- Jerry Smith to Investigate interop
   issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-12-05 --


     [21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164

   <nigel> jdsmith: there are some outstanding issues and someone
   needs to make a proposal to align Unicode escapes with CSS to
   avoid pre-parsing if possible.

   <glenn> back

   <nigel> close action-164

   <trackbot> Closed action-164.

   <nigel> action-203?

   <trackbot> action-203 -- Glenn Adams to Investigate 708 border
   style mapping issues with mike's help -- due 2013-09-26 --


     [22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/203

   <nigel> action-207?

   <trackbot> action-207 -- Glenn Adams to Add round-down
   clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259 -- due
   2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/207

   <nigel> issue-259?

   <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review


     [24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259

   <nigel> reopen action-207

   <trackbot> Re-opened action-207.

   <nigel> action-207: glenn to add errata to distinguish between
   scalar and vector comparisons

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-207 Add round-down
   clarification to "closest" language, see issue-259.

   <nigel> reopen issue-259

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-259.

   <nigel> issue-259: Scalar and vector comparisons need to be
   distinguished more clearly.

   <trackbot> Notes added to issue-259 Define "closest".

   <nigel> action-244?

   <trackbot> action-244 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Proceed with
   work to investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback
   is to remove annex a. -- due 2013-12-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW


     [25] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/244

   <nigel> glenn: A note on the action to explain the findings
   would be useful.

   <nigel> action-244: pal to add disclaimer text to table 2

   <trackbot> Notes added to action-244 Proceed with work to
   investigate deltas. if time doesn't allow the fallback is to
   remove annex a..

   <nigel> reopen action-244

   <trackbot> Re-opened action-244.

Pending Review Issues

   <nigel> issue-162?

   <trackbot> issue-162 -- update standalone profile documents --
   pending review


     [26] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/162

   <nigel> nigel: No feedback received on this - let's close.

   <nigel> close issue-162

   <trackbot> Closed issue-162.

   <nigel> action-261?

   <trackbot> action-261 -- Jerry Smith to And glenn to verify
   flexbox solution to multi row align using ie -- due 2014-01-23
   -- OPEN


     [27] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/261

   <nigel> nigel: have added a comment to action 261 directly

   <nigel> close action-261

   <trackbot> Closed action-261.

   <nigel> nigel: not going through remaining outstanding actions
   to use time on change proposals

Change Proposals

   <nigel> scribeNick: nigel


   <trackbot> action-263 -- Nigel Megitt to Tidy change proposal
   index page to include an index -- due 2014-01-23 --


     [28] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/263


     [29] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/ChangeProposalIndex

   nigel: glenn, does this do wanted?

   glenn: I think we should make change proposals coincident with
   work packages and eliminate work packages.

   nigel: updates page to this effect.

   glenn: it would also be good to show the name of the assignee.

   pal: Suggests clarification of Issues vs Change Proposals would
   be worthwhile.

   glenn: Other WGs using the same process e.g. HTMLWG.

   nigel: bugs are just issues, new features need issues within
   change proposals.

   glenn: Often a 'don't change' proposal goes alongside a change
   ... I agree that a new feature should have a change proposal to
   give the rationale etc. and it may be useful to document that
   in the index page Overview.
   ... We're missing a WG process to describe how we use these
   different tools e.g. actions, issues and change proposals.

   close action-263

   <trackbot> Closed action-263.

   action nigel to describe WG process, issues, actions, change
   proposals on WG wiki more clearly, including taking out
   remaining references to work packages from change proposal
   index page overview.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-266 - Describe wg process, issues,
   actions, change proposals on wg wiki more clearly, including
   taking out remaining references to work packages from change
   proposal index page overview. [on Nigel Megitt - due

   nigel: no progress on action-262
   ... will complete action-264 tomorrow. Some issues have no CP,
   others have more than one. Most are in a CP though.
   ... requests that people take ownership of the change proposals
   and expand the rationale etc to make them well formed.

   pal: Can we clarify the distinction between issues and change

   glenn: Issues should be Problem Statements and the issue text
   could include a proposed solution. If it's more than a simple
   proposal then a CP is useful to more fully document it.
   ... There may be competing CPs for a single issue. In the past
   we have not used the CP mechanism very much and have just
   thrown everything over the fence to the editor who came up with
   a solution and put it in the spec.
   ... rather than going through an intermediate discussion via a
   ... We should try to elaborate proposed solutions more in the
   CP before the Editor brings the change in. This gives the group
   the chance to sign up to the change before the Editor folds it

   nigel: It's also worth considering differnt problems
   collectively to generate coherent solutions.

   glenn: take for example issue-229 - it would be good to put a
   proposed solution into the change proposal (21).

   pal: issue-229 has some of the rationale and background

   glenn: The CP should propose a solution.
   ... the CP allows us to develop the solution alongside the
   rationale to address the set of issues. It can be at varying
   levels of specificity in terms of the exact edits to make.
   ... It's also really helpful to create examples, e.g. for the
   more complex style properties. The less work for the editor the
   quicker the change gets into the spec.

   pal: Sounds great.

   nigel: [misses some conversation about CP and process wrt

   pal: The issues are sometimes completely independent.

   glenn: in that case they should have separate CPs.

   nigel: we need to get ownership on these CPs - we can do this
   by volunteering or by me volunteering them.

   glenn: I'm of the 'pick a victim' preference.

   pal: the majority issue owner should be assigned the CP.

   jdsmith: I can take on Sean's CPs.

   nigel: thanks, I'll reassign them to you.


   rssagent, make logs public

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]


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Received on Thursday, 30 January 2014 16:31:52 UTC