W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > September 2013

Re: TTML Minutes for 25/09/13

From: Thierry MICHEL <tmichel@w3.org>
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:17:56 +0200
Message-ID: <52454D44.80008@w3.org>
To: Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>
CC: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>, Public TTWG List <public-tt@w3.org>
Sylvia,
Indeed you have requested an observer status.
Thierry

On 27/09/2013 10:56, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote:
> FYI I registered for China meeting, too.
> Cheers,
> Silvia.
>
> On 27 Sep 2013 01:05, "Nigel Megitt" <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk
> <mailto:nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Minutes at: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html
>
>         [1]W3C
>
>            [1]http://www.w3.org/
>
>                                     - DRAFT -
>
>                      Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
>
>     26 Sep 2013
>
>         See also: [2]IRC log
>
>            [2]http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-irc
>
>     Attendees
>
>         Present
>                +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel,
>                +1.858.882.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
>
>         Regrets
>         Chair
>                SV_MEETING_CHAIR
>
>         Scribe
>                nigel
>
>     Contents
>
>           * [3]Topics
>               1. [4]f2f at tpac
>               2. [5]Issues
>               3. [6]aob
>               4. [7]next week
>           * [8]Summary of Action Items
>           __________________________________________________________
>
>         <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2013
>
>     f2f at tpac
>
>         <tmichel> So far we have the following people registered at the
>         TTML WG F2F
>
>         <tmichel> Registered as group participant:
>
>         <tmichel> Philippe Le Hégaret <plh@w3.org  <mailto:plh@w3.org>> (W3C Staff) :
>         attending Monday
>
>         <tmichel> Mark Vickers <mark_vickers@cable.comcast.com  <mailto:mark_vickers@cable.comcast.com>>
>         (Comcast Corporation) : attending Monday
>
>         <tmichel> Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com  <mailto:glenn@skynav.com>> (Cox Communications,
>         Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday
>
>         <tmichel> Jean-Pierre EVAIN <evain@ebu.ch  <mailto:evain@ebu.ch>> (European
>         Broadcasting Union (EBU-UER)) : attending Monday
>
>         <tmichel> David Singer <singer@apple.com  <mailto:singer@apple.com>> (Apple, Inc.) :
>         attending Monday, Friday
>
>         current list of topics is at:
>         [9]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac
>
>            [9]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac
>
>         <tmichel> Cyril Concolato
>         <cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr  <mailto:cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr>> (INSTITUT TELECOM) :
>         attending Monday
>
>         <tmichel> Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com  <mailto:pal@sandflow.com>> (MovieLabs)
>         : attending Monday, Friday
>
>         <tmichel> Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org  <mailto:tmichel@w3.org>> (W3C Staff) :
>         attending Friday
>
>         <tmichel> So that is 7 people attending
>
>         <tmichel>
>         [10]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#T
>         T
>
>           [10]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#TT
>
>         I'm likely to register too, assuming we can set goals etc.
>
>         sean: add to list: advanced animation and profiles (the latter
>         already present)
>
>         tmichel: We should aim to have a functionally correct TTML 2
>         after the two days
>
>         sean: also a working plan for what to do re WebVTT
>
>         nigel: what about live TTML?
>
>         sean: could be a good opportunity depending on state of work
>         that can be presented by EBU
>
>         nigel: should be able to present the use cases and potential
>         solution areas
>
>         tmichel: how should we call this?
>
>         nigel: two topics. 1) Distribution of segmented TTML. 2)
>         Contribution of live TTML, with handovers etc.
>
>         sean: can tmichel and nigel take this agenda forward?
>
>         tmichel: yes
>
>         nigel: yes
>
>         <scribe> scribeNick: nigel
>
>         scribeNick is nigel
>
>         issue-22?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? --
>         pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
>
>           [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
>
>         <tmichel> scribe:nigel
>
>     Issues
>
>         issue-22?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? --
>         pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
>
>           [12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
>
>         sean: do we have the mechanics in the new mechanism to meet the
>         708 window fade-in and fade-out requirements?
>         ... there are some effects that may not map from 708 to
>         animation.
>         ... Can we close this issue based on what we can achieve with
>         the proposed solution?
>
>         mike: it's meaningless to get the effect without meeting 708.
>
>         sean: what properties do we need to add to meet all of the 708
>         effects?
>         ... We need a note on this issue and re-open it.
>
>         reopen issue-22
>
>         <trackbot> Re-opened issue-22.
>
>         action mike to add additional notes to issue-22
>
>         <trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Add additional notes to
>         issue-22 [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].
>
>         issue-23?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-23 -- intermediate animation of extent --
>         pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23
>
>           [13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23
>
>         sean: not all of the window effect mechanics are present.
>         Propose re-opening unless requirements are actually met.
>
>         mike: unaware of this as a 708 requirement
>         ... windowOut doesn't map to animation of extent
>
>         plh: no recollection why this was raised (back in 2005!)
>
>         sean: close this, we'll get the effect anyway with smooth
>         animation.
>
>         close issue-23
>
>         <trackbot> Closed issue-23.
>
>         issue-72?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference
>         area offset -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
>
>           [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
>
>         sean: the required properties don't seem to be present
>
>         mike: this needs to be solved with some kind of region property
>         animation.
>
>         reopen issue-72
>
>         <trackbot> Re-opened issue-72.
>
>         action on sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is
>         needed to be the subject of animation
>
>         <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register
>         nicknames at
>         <[15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.
>
>           [15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users%3E.
>
>         action sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed
>         to be the subject of animation
>
>         <trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Add notes to issue-72 that a
>         property is needed to be the subject of animation [on Sean
>         Hayes - due 2013-10-03].
>
>         issue-159?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-159 -- Text orientation in I18n script
>         processing -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159
>
>           [16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159
>
>         sean: this appears to meet my requirements. What about SMPTE's?
>
>         pal: will have to check. Each of the SMPTE requests were
>         captured in separate tickets.
>
>         close issue-159
>
>         <trackbot> Closed issue-159.
>
>         issue-167?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no
>         semantics on specific elements -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
>
>           [17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
>
>         mike: this needs further review
>
>         sean: leave as pending review
>
>         issue-176
>
>         <trackbot> issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin
>         attributes on block elements -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
>
>           [18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
>
>         sean: glenn has added an inline region element, so it can be
>         defined locally and targets its parent element. This is
>         analogous to <set> and is similar to adding the attributes.
>         ... This solves the inheritance problem. It's a reasonable
>         design however the problem is that existing practice has been
>         that people have been doing the CPC proposal.
>         ... We need further input from the industry to say if this is
>         an acceptable solution.
>
>         mike: agrees with sean
>
>         nigel: does it permit animation of the extent and origin?
>
>         sean: yes with an animate element as a child of the region.
>         ... this is a big change, so not closing at this point. This
>         would be a good agenda item for the f2f to ensure that all the
>         semantics work out.
>
>         issue-167?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no
>         semantics on specific elements -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
>
>           [19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
>
>         mike: not happy with current approach
>
>         reopen issue-167
>
>         <trackbot> Re-opened issue-167.
>
>         action mike to add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved
>         issues.
>
>         <trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Add notes to issue-167
>         describing unresolved issues. [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].
>
>         issue-178?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-178 -- initial values and style set
>         calculations are unclear, especially for transformable
>         attributes -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178
>
>           [20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178
>
>         sean: review further and return to this.
>
>         issue-183?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-183 -- semantics of using profile in a
>         document -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183
>
>           [21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183
>
>         close issue-183
>
>         <trackbot> Closed issue-183.
>
>         sean: further profiles issues will be created if needed
>
>         issue-206?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-206 -- Add ttp:profileCombination parameter --
>         pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206
>
>           [22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206
>
>         sean: want to review further
>
>         pal: what is this in response to?
>
>         sean: we created this to capture some previous issues uncovered
>         with SDP-US
>
>         pal: this adds complexity without rationale.
>
>         sean: propose leaving open until we've had the f2f session on
>         profiles.
>
>         pal: I'm adding a note to request more background on this
>         issue.
>         ... on tpac page.
>
>         issue-225?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-225 -- tts:fontSize as percentage of container
>         dimensions -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225
>
>           [23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225
>
>         sean: not sure of reason for vmin and vmax
>
>         pal: agree, need to know the rationale.
>
>         nigel: agree too.
>
>         sean: I had the same problem as raised by nigel, need to know
>         the unit space in which to do the comparison.
>         ... we need clarity over meaning of vmin and vmax
>
>         reopen issue-225
>
>         <trackbot> Re-opened issue-225.
>
>         pal: will add a note for reason for vmin and vmax
>
>         issue-259?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
>
>           [24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
>
>         sean: glenn has added in a determination for closest.
>
>         issue-259?
>
>         <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
>
>         <trackbot>
>         [25]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
>
>           [25]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
>
>         plh: vmin and vmax are dependent on the size of the root
>         element, body. Percentages further down the tree are based on
>         the size of the parent.
>         ... It gives access to the original extent from anywhere in the
>         tree.
>
>         sean: What if the pixels aren't logically square - does that
>         make a difference in terms of the minimum/maximum choice?
>
>         plh: understanding is that it's a comparison of the number of
>         pixels.
>
>         sean: That's what we are asking for clarification on. What is
>         the real world value being compared and why is vmin and vmax
>         needed?
>
>         pal: concerned this is done without resolving an incompatible
>         issue in TTML1.
>         ... Until we fix that we can't talk about pixels in any other
>         context.
>         ... The issue is the mapping of logical to physical pixels.
>
>     aob
>
>     next week
>
>         sean: face to face agenda
>
>         pal: plan to have an updated version of the text and image
>         profiles based on recent DECE improvements that impacts on some
>         of the TPAC issues,
>         ... specifically more consistent rendering of fonts.
>
>     Summary of Action Items
>
>         [End of minutes]
>           __________________________________________________________
>
>
>          Minutes formatted by David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version
>          1.138 ([27]CVS log)
>          $Date: 2013-09-26 15:01:07 $
>           __________________________________________________________
>
>           [26]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>           [27]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
>
>     Scribe.perl diagnostic output
>
>         [Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
>     This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.138  of Date: 2013-04-25 13:59:11
>     Check for newer version at [28]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/
>     scribe/  <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/>
>
>           [28]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
>
>     Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
>
>     Found ScribeNick: nigel
>     Found Scribe: nigel
>     Inferring ScribeNick: nigel
>     Default Present: +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel, +1.858.882
>     .aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
>     Present: +44.154.558.aaaa pal nigel Sean tmichel +1.858.882.aabb mike mi
>     jordan Plh
>
>     WARNING: No meeting chair found!
>     You should specify the meeting chair like this:
>     <dbooth> Chair: dbooth
>
>     Found Date: 26 Sep 2013
>     Guessing minutes URL: [29]http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html
>     People with action items:
>
>           [29]http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html
>
>
>         End of [30]scribe.perl diagnostic output]
>
>           [30]http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Sean Hayes [Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com
>     <mailto:Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com>]
>     *Sent:* 25 September 2013 21:13
>     *To:* 'public-tt@w3.org <mailto:public-tt@w3.org>'
>     *Subject:* TTML Agenda for 25/09/13
>
>     **
>
>     *This meeting is scheduled for at most 60m to close out issues we
>     couldn’t get to last week.*
>
>     **
>
>     Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the
>     correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.
>
>     Please check
>     http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=09&day=25&year=2013&hour=10&min=0&sec=0&p1=43
>
>     Thursdays10:00am-12:00am Boston local
>
>     Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200 <tel:%2B1.617.761.6200>, conference
>     8865 ("TTML")
>
>     IRC: server: irc.w3.org <http://irc.w3.org>, port: 6665, channel:
>     #tt Web gateway to :http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc
>
>     Chair: Sean Hayes
>
>     Agenda+ Assign Scribe
>
>     Agenda+ Pending Review Issues
>
>     The following issues are candidate for closing.
>
>     *ID*
>
>     	
>
>     *State*
>
>     	
>
>     *Title*
>
>     	
>
>     *Raised on*
>
>     	
>
>     *Product*
>
>     	
>
>     *Open Actions*
>
>     ISSUE-22 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22/edit>
>     window fade in/out
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     window fade in/out not supported?
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22>
>
>     	
>
>     2008-12-05
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-23 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23/edit>
>     animation
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     intermediate animation of extent
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23>
>
>     	
>
>     2008-12-05
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-72 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72/edit>
>     smooth scrolling
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72>
>
>     	
>
>     2009-04-24
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-159 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159/edit>
>     Text orientation
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     Text orientation in I18n script processing
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159>
>
>     	
>
>     2012-02-15
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-167 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167/edit>
>     attribute syntax
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167>
>
>     	
>
>     2012-04-13
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-176 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176/edit>
>     extent and origin on blocks
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     Adding support for extent and origin attributes on block elements
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176>
>
>     	
>
>     2012-08-23
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-178 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178/edit>
>     Inital values
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     initial values and style set calculations are unclear, especially
>     for transformable attributes
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178>
>
>     	
>
>     2012-08-23
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-183 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183/edit>
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     semantics of using profile in a document
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183>
>
>     	
>
>     2012-09-19
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-206 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206/edit>
>     profile combination
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     Add ttp:profileCombination parameter
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206>
>
>     	
>
>     2013-05-12
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-225 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225/edit>
>     Relative tts:fontSize
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     tts:fontSize as percentage of container dimensions
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225>
>
>     	
>
>     2013-05-30
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-259 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259/edit>
>     Closest
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     Define "closest" <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259>
>
>     	
>
>     2013-06-27
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-261 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261/edit>
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     signaling docoument profile conformance is separate from decoder
>     presentation requirements
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261>
>
>     	
>
>     2013-07-11
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-262 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262/edit>
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     tts:extent semantics if value not supported
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262>
>
>     	
>
>     2013-07-11
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     ISSUE-266 <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266>(edit)
>     <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266/edit>
>
>     	
>
>     PENDING REVIEW
>
>     	
>
>     add ability for instance documents to declare what profile(s) it
>     conforms to <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266>
>
>     	
>
>     2013-08-08
>
>     	
>
>     TTML2
>
>     	
>
>     0
>
>     Tracker (Issues and Actions): http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker
>
>     TTML Wiki
>
>     http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText
>
>     ----------------------------
>
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Received on Friday, 27 September 2013 09:18:36 UTC

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