W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > September 2013

RE: TTML Minutes for 25/09/13

From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:04:18 +0000
To: "public-tt@w3.org" <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <5941EAB8802D6745A7D363D7B37BD1F74848F33F@BGB01XUD1012.national.core.bbc.co.uk>
Minutes at: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html



   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

26 Sep 2013

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel,
          +1.858.882.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh

   Regrets
   Chair
          SV_MEETING_CHAIR

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]f2f at tpac
         2. [5]Issues
         3. [6]aob
         4. [7]next week
     * [8]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2013

f2f at tpac

   <tmichel> So far we have the following people registered at the
   TTML WG F2F

   <tmichel> Registered as group participant:

   <tmichel> Philippe Le Hégaret <plh@w3.org> (W3C Staff) :
   attending Monday

   <tmichel> Mark Vickers <mark_vickers@cable.comcast.com>
   (Comcast Corporation) : attending Monday

   <tmichel> Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> (Cox Communications,
   Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday

   <tmichel> Jean-Pierre EVAIN <evain@ebu.ch> (European
   Broadcasting Union (EBU-UER)) : attending Monday

   <tmichel> David Singer <singer@apple.com> (Apple, Inc.) :
   attending Monday, Friday

   current list of topics is at:
   [9]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac


      [9] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac


   <tmichel> Cyril Concolato
   <cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr> (INSTITUT TELECOM) :
   attending Monday

   <tmichel> Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> (MovieLabs)
   : attending Monday, Friday

   <tmichel> Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org> (W3C Staff) :
   attending Friday

   <tmichel> So that is 7 people attending

   <tmichel>
   [10]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#T

   T

     [10] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#TT


   I'm likely to register too, assuming we can set goals etc.

   sean: add to list: advanced animation and profiles (the latter
   already present)

   tmichel: We should aim to have a functionally correct TTML 2
   after the two days

   sean: also a working plan for what to do re WebVTT

   nigel: what about live TTML?

   sean: could be a good opportunity depending on state of work
   that can be presented by EBU

   nigel: should be able to present the use cases and potential
   solution areas

   tmichel: how should we call this?

   nigel: two topics. 1) Distribution of segmented TTML. 2)
   Contribution of live TTML, with handovers etc.

   sean: can tmichel and nigel take this agenda forward?

   tmichel: yes

   nigel: yes

   <scribe> scribeNick: nigel

   scribeNick is nigel

   issue-22?

   <trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? --
   pending review

   <trackbot>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22


     [11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22


   <tmichel> scribe:nigel

Issues

   issue-22?

   <trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? --
   pending review

   <trackbot>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22


     [12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22


   sean: do we have the mechanics in the new mechanism to meet the
   708 window fade-in and fade-out requirements?
   ... there are some effects that may not map from 708 to
   animation.
   ... Can we close this issue based on what we can achieve with
   the proposed solution?

   mike: it's meaningless to get the effect without meeting 708.

   sean: what properties do we need to add to meet all of the 708
   effects?
   ... We need a note on this issue and re-open it.

   reopen issue-22

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-22.

   action mike to add additional notes to issue-22

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Add additional notes to
   issue-22 [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].

   issue-23?

   <trackbot> issue-23 -- intermediate animation of extent --
   pending review

   <trackbot>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23


     [13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23


   sean: not all of the window effect mechanics are present.
   Propose re-opening unless requirements are actually met.

   mike: unaware of this as a 708 requirement
   ... windowOut doesn't map to animation of extent

   plh: no recollection why this was raised (back in 2005!)

   sean: close this, we'll get the effect anyway with smooth
   animation.

   close issue-23

   <trackbot> Closed issue-23.

   issue-72?

   <trackbot> issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference
   area offset -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72


     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72


   sean: the required properties don't seem to be present

   mike: this needs to be solved with some kind of region property
   animation.

   reopen issue-72

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-72.

   action on sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is
   needed to be the subject of animation

   <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register
   nicknames at
   <[15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.

     [15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users%3E.


   action sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed
   to be the subject of animation

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Add notes to issue-72 that a
   property is needed to be the subject of animation [on Sean
   Hayes - due 2013-10-03].

   issue-159?

   <trackbot> issue-159 -- Text orientation in I18n script
   processing -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159


     [16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159


   sean: this appears to meet my requirements. What about SMPTE's?

   pal: will have to check. Each of the SMPTE requests were
   captured in separate tickets.

   close issue-159

   <trackbot> Closed issue-159.

   issue-167?

   <trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no
   semantics on specific elements -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167


     [17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167


   mike: this needs further review

   sean: leave as pending review

   issue-176

   <trackbot> issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin
   attributes on block elements -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176


     [18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176


   sean: glenn has added an inline region element, so it can be
   defined locally and targets its parent element. This is
   analogous to <set> and is similar to adding the attributes.
   ... This solves the inheritance problem. It's a reasonable
   design however the problem is that existing practice has been
   that people have been doing the CPC proposal.
   ... We need further input from the industry to say if this is
   an acceptable solution.

   mike: agrees with sean

   nigel: does it permit animation of the extent and origin?

   sean: yes with an animate element as a child of the region.
   ... this is a big change, so not closing at this point. This
   would be a good agenda item for the f2f to ensure that all the
   semantics work out.

   issue-167?

   <trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no
   semantics on specific elements -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167


     [19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167


   mike: not happy with current approach

   reopen issue-167

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-167.

   action mike to add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved
   issues.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Add notes to issue-167
   describing unresolved issues. [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].

   issue-178?

   <trackbot> issue-178 -- initial values and style set
   calculations are unclear, especially for transformable
   attributes -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178


     [20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178


   sean: review further and return to this.

   issue-183?

   <trackbot> issue-183 -- semantics of using profile in a
   document -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183


     [21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183


   close issue-183

   <trackbot> Closed issue-183.

   sean: further profiles issues will be created if needed

   issue-206?

   <trackbot> issue-206 -- Add ttp:profileCombination parameter --
   pending review

   <trackbot>
   [22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206


     [22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206


   sean: want to review further

   pal: what is this in response to?

   sean: we created this to capture some previous issues uncovered
   with SDP-US

   pal: this adds complexity without rationale.

   sean: propose leaving open until we've had the f2f session on
   profiles.

   pal: I'm adding a note to request more background on this
   issue.
   ... on tpac page.

   issue-225?

   <trackbot> issue-225 -- tts:fontSize as percentage of container
   dimensions -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225


     [23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225


   sean: not sure of reason for vmin and vmax

   pal: agree, need to know the rationale.

   nigel: agree too.

   sean: I had the same problem as raised by nigel, need to know
   the unit space in which to do the comparison.
   ... we need clarity over meaning of vmin and vmax

   reopen issue-225

   <trackbot> Re-opened issue-225.

   pal: will add a note for reason for vmin and vmax

   issue-259?

   <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259


     [24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259


   sean: glenn has added in a determination for closest.

   issue-259?

   <trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review

   <trackbot>
   [25]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259


     [25] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259


   plh: vmin and vmax are dependent on the size of the root
   element, body. Percentages further down the tree are based on
   the size of the parent.
   ... It gives access to the original extent from anywhere in the
   tree.

   sean: What if the pixels aren't logically square - does that
   make a difference in terms of the minimum/maximum choice?

   plh: understanding is that it's a comparison of the number of
   pixels.

   sean: That's what we are asking for clarification on. What is
   the real world value being compared and why is vmin and vmax
   needed?

   pal: concerned this is done without resolving an incompatible
   issue in TTML1.
   ... Until we fix that we can't talk about pixels in any other
   context.
   ... The issue is the mapping of logical to physical pixels.

aob

next week

   sean: face to face agenda

   pal: plan to have an updated version of the text and image
   profiles based on recent DECE improvements that impacts on some
   of the TPAC issues,
   ... specifically more consistent rendering of fonts.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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     [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

     [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/


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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: nigel
Found Scribe: nigel
Inferring ScribeNick: nigel
Default Present: +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel, +1.858.882
.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
Present: +44.154.558.aaaa pal nigel Sean tmichel +1.858.882.aabb mike mi
jordan Plh

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 26 Sep 2013
Guessing minutes URL: [29]http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html

People with action items:

     [29] http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html



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     [30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm



________________________________
From: Sean Hayes [Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com]
Sent: 25 September 2013 21:13
To: 'public-tt@w3.org'
Subject: TTML Agenda for 25/09/13


This meeting is scheduled for at most 60m to close out issues we couldn’t get to last week.

Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.



Please check http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=09&day=25&year=2013&hour=10&min=0&sec=0&p1=43




Thursdays 10:00am-12:00am Boston local



Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 8865 ("TTML")

IRC: server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #tt Web gateway to :http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc




Chair: Sean Hayes



Agenda+ Assign Scribe





Agenda+ Pending Review Issues

The following issues are candidate for closing.
ID

State

Title

Raised on

Product

Open Actions

ISSUE-22<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22/edit>
window fade in/out

PENDING REVIEW

window fade in/out not supported?<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22>

2008-12-05

TTML2

0

ISSUE-23<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23/edit>
animation

PENDING REVIEW

intermediate animation of extent<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23>

2008-12-05

TTML2

0

ISSUE-72<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72/edit>
smooth scrolling

PENDING REVIEW

Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72>

2009-04-24

TTML2

0

ISSUE-159<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159/edit>
Text orientation

PENDING REVIEW

Text orientation in I18n script processing<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159>

2012-02-15

TTML2

0

ISSUE-167<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167/edit>
attribute syntax

PENDING REVIEW

allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167>

2012-04-13

TTML2

0

ISSUE-176<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176/edit>
extent and origin on blocks

PENDING REVIEW

Adding support for extent and origin attributes on block elements<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176>

2012-08-23

TTML2

0

ISSUE-178<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178/edit>
Inital values

PENDING REVIEW

initial values and style set calculations are unclear, especially for transformable attributes<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178>

2012-08-23

TTML2

0

ISSUE-183<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183/edit>

PENDING REVIEW

semantics of using profile in a document<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183>

2012-09-19

TTML2

0

ISSUE-206<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206/edit>
profile combination

PENDING REVIEW

Add ttp:profileCombination parameter<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206>

2013-05-12

TTML2

0

ISSUE-225<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225/edit>
Relative tts:fontSize

PENDING REVIEW

tts:fontSize as percentage of container dimensions<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225>

2013-05-30

TTML2

0

ISSUE-259<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259/edit>
Closest

PENDING REVIEW

Define "closest"<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259>

2013-06-27

TTML2

0

ISSUE-261<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261/edit>

PENDING REVIEW

signaling docoument profile conformance is separate from decoder presentation requirements<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261>

2013-07-11

TTML2

0

ISSUE-262<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262/edit>

PENDING REVIEW

tts:extent semantics if value not supported<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262>

2013-07-11

TTML2

0

ISSUE-266<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266/edit>

PENDING REVIEW

add ability for instance documents to declare what profile(s) it conforms to <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266>

2013-08-08

TTML2

0






Tracker (Issues and Actions): http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker




TTML Wiki

http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText






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Received on Thursday, 26 September 2013 15:04:50 UTC

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