- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 15:04:18 +0000
- To: "public-tt@w3.org" <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <5941EAB8802D6745A7D363D7B37BD1F74848F33F@BGB01XUD1012.national.core.bbc.co.uk>
Minutes at: http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
26 Sep 2013
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
+44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel,
+1.858.882.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]f2f at tpac
2. [5]Issues
3. [6]aob
4. [7]next week
* [8]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 26 September 2013
f2f at tpac
<tmichel> So far we have the following people registered at the
TTML WG F2F
<tmichel> Registered as group participant:
<tmichel> Philippe Le Hégaret <plh@w3.org> (W3C Staff) :
attending Monday
<tmichel> Mark Vickers <mark_vickers@cable.comcast.com>
(Comcast Corporation) : attending Monday
<tmichel> Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> (Cox Communications,
Inc.) : attending Monday, Friday
<tmichel> Jean-Pierre EVAIN <evain@ebu.ch> (European
Broadcasting Union (EBU-UER)) : attending Monday
<tmichel> David Singer <singer@apple.com> (Apple, Inc.) :
attending Monday, Friday
current list of topics is at:
[9]http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac
[9] http://www.w3.org/wiki/Talk:TimedText/tpac
<tmichel> Cyril Concolato
<cyril.concolato@telecom-paristech.fr> (INSTITUT TELECOM) :
attending Monday
<tmichel> Pierre-Anthony Lemieux <pal@sandflow.com> (MovieLabs)
: attending Monday, Friday
<tmichel> Thierry Michel <tmichel@w3.org> (W3C Staff) :
attending Friday
<tmichel> So that is 7 people attending
<tmichel>
[10]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#T
T
[10] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/registrants#TT
I'm likely to register too, assuming we can set goals etc.
sean: add to list: advanced animation and profiles (the latter
already present)
tmichel: We should aim to have a functionally correct TTML 2
after the two days
sean: also a working plan for what to do re WebVTT
nigel: what about live TTML?
sean: could be a good opportunity depending on state of work
that can be presented by EBU
nigel: should be able to present the use cases and potential
solution areas
tmichel: how should we call this?
nigel: two topics. 1) Distribution of segmented TTML. 2)
Contribution of live TTML, with handovers etc.
sean: can tmichel and nigel take this agenda forward?
tmichel: yes
nigel: yes
<scribe> scribeNick: nigel
scribeNick is nigel
issue-22?
<trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? --
pending review
<trackbot>
[11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
[11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
<tmichel> scribe:nigel
Issues
issue-22?
<trackbot> issue-22 -- window fade in/out not supported? --
pending review
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
[12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22
sean: do we have the mechanics in the new mechanism to meet the
708 window fade-in and fade-out requirements?
... there are some effects that may not map from 708 to
animation.
... Can we close this issue based on what we can achieve with
the proposed solution?
mike: it's meaningless to get the effect without meeting 708.
sean: what properties do we need to add to meet all of the 708
effects?
... We need a note on this issue and re-open it.
reopen issue-22
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-22.
action mike to add additional notes to issue-22
<trackbot> Created ACTION-209 - Add additional notes to
issue-22 [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].
issue-23?
<trackbot> issue-23 -- intermediate animation of extent --
pending review
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23
[13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23
sean: not all of the window effect mechanics are present.
Propose re-opening unless requirements are actually met.
mike: unaware of this as a 708 requirement
... windowOut doesn't map to animation of extent
plh: no recollection why this was raised (back in 2005!)
sean: close this, we'll get the effect anyway with smooth
animation.
close issue-23
<trackbot> Closed issue-23.
issue-72?
<trackbot> issue-72 -- Smooth scrolling by means of reference
area offset -- pending review
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72
sean: the required properties don't seem to be present
mike: this needs to be solved with some kind of region property
animation.
reopen issue-72
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-72.
action on sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is
needed to be the subject of animation
<trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register
nicknames at
<[15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users>.
[15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/users%3E.
action sean to add notes to issue-72 that a property is needed
to be the subject of animation
<trackbot> Created ACTION-210 - Add notes to issue-72 that a
property is needed to be the subject of animation [on Sean
Hayes - due 2013-10-03].
issue-159?
<trackbot> issue-159 -- Text orientation in I18n script
processing -- pending review
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159
[16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159
sean: this appears to meet my requirements. What about SMPTE's?
pal: will have to check. Each of the SMPTE requests were
captured in separate tickets.
close issue-159
<trackbot> Closed issue-159.
issue-167?
<trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no
semantics on specific elements -- pending review
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
[17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
mike: this needs further review
sean: leave as pending review
issue-176
<trackbot> issue-176 -- Adding support for extent and origin
attributes on block elements -- pending review
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
[18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176
sean: glenn has added an inline region element, so it can be
defined locally and targets its parent element. This is
analogous to <set> and is similar to adding the attributes.
... This solves the inheritance problem. It's a reasonable
design however the problem is that existing practice has been
that people have been doing the CPC proposal.
... We need further input from the industry to say if this is
an acceptable solution.
mike: agrees with sean
nigel: does it permit animation of the extent and origin?
sean: yes with an animate element as a child of the region.
... this is a big change, so not closing at this point. This
would be a good agenda item for the f2f to ensure that all the
semantics work out.
issue-167?
<trackbot> issue-167 -- allowing attributes that have no
semantics on specific elements -- pending review
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
[19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167
mike: not happy with current approach
reopen issue-167
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-167.
action mike to add notes to issue-167 describing unresolved
issues.
<trackbot> Created ACTION-211 - Add notes to issue-167
describing unresolved issues. [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-10-03].
issue-178?
<trackbot> issue-178 -- initial values and style set
calculations are unclear, especially for transformable
attributes -- pending review
<trackbot>
[20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178
[20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178
sean: review further and return to this.
issue-183?
<trackbot> issue-183 -- semantics of using profile in a
document -- pending review
<trackbot>
[21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183
[21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183
close issue-183
<trackbot> Closed issue-183.
sean: further profiles issues will be created if needed
issue-206?
<trackbot> issue-206 -- Add ttp:profileCombination parameter --
pending review
<trackbot>
[22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206
[22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206
sean: want to review further
pal: what is this in response to?
sean: we created this to capture some previous issues uncovered
with SDP-US
pal: this adds complexity without rationale.
sean: propose leaving open until we've had the f2f session on
profiles.
pal: I'm adding a note to request more background on this
issue.
... on tpac page.
issue-225?
<trackbot> issue-225 -- tts:fontSize as percentage of container
dimensions -- pending review
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225
[23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225
sean: not sure of reason for vmin and vmax
pal: agree, need to know the rationale.
nigel: agree too.
sean: I had the same problem as raised by nigel, need to know
the unit space in which to do the comparison.
... we need clarity over meaning of vmin and vmax
reopen issue-225
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-225.
pal: will add a note for reason for vmin and vmax
issue-259?
<trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
<trackbot>
[24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
[24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
sean: glenn has added in a determination for closest.
issue-259?
<trackbot> issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
<trackbot>
[25]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
[25] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
plh: vmin and vmax are dependent on the size of the root
element, body. Percentages further down the tree are based on
the size of the parent.
... It gives access to the original extent from anywhere in the
tree.
sean: What if the pixels aren't logically square - does that
make a difference in terms of the minimum/maximum choice?
plh: understanding is that it's a comparison of the number of
pixels.
sean: That's what we are asking for clarification on. What is
the real world value being compared and why is vmin and vmax
needed?
pal: concerned this is done without resolving an incompatible
issue in TTML1.
... Until we fix that we can't talk about pixels in any other
context.
... The issue is the mapping of logical to physical pixels.
aob
next week
sean: face to face agenda
pal: plan to have an updated version of the text and image
profiles based on recent DECE improvements that impacts on some
of the TPAC issues,
... specifically more consistent rendering of fonts.
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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1.138 ([27]CVS log)
$Date: 2013-09-26 15:01:07 $
__________________________________________________________
[26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Found ScribeNick: nigel
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Default Present: +44.154.558.aaaa, pal, nigel, Sean, tmichel, +1.858.882
.aabb, mike, mijordan, Plh
Present: +44.154.558.aaaa pal nigel Sean tmichel +1.858.882.aabb mike mi
jordan Plh
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<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 26 Sep 2013
Guessing minutes URL: [29]http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html
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[29] http://www.w3.org/2013/09/26-tt-minutes.html
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[30] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
________________________________
From: Sean Hayes [Sean.Hayes@microsoft.com]
Sent: 25 September 2013 21:13
To: 'public-tt@w3.org'
Subject: TTML Agenda for 25/09/13
This meeting is scheduled for at most 60m to close out issues we couldn’t get to last week.
Our teleconference is scheduled with reference to Boston Time, the correct time of this teleconference in your locale may change.
Please check http://timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=09&day=25&year=2013&hour=10&min=0&sec=0&p1=43
Thursdays 10:00am-12:00am Boston local
Zakim Bridge +1.617.761.6200, conference 8865 ("TTML")
IRC: server: irc.w3.org, port: 6665, channel: #tt Web gateway to :http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc
Chair: Sean Hayes
Agenda+ Assign Scribe
Agenda+ Pending Review Issues
The following issues are candidate for closing.
ID
State
Title
Raised on
Product
Open Actions
ISSUE-22<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22/edit>
window fade in/out
PENDING REVIEW
window fade in/out not supported?<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/22>
2008-12-05
TTML2
0
ISSUE-23<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23/edit>
animation
PENDING REVIEW
intermediate animation of extent<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/23>
2008-12-05
TTML2
0
ISSUE-72<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72/edit>
smooth scrolling
PENDING REVIEW
Smooth scrolling by means of reference area offset<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/72>
2009-04-24
TTML2
0
ISSUE-159<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159/edit>
Text orientation
PENDING REVIEW
Text orientation in I18n script processing<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/159>
2012-02-15
TTML2
0
ISSUE-167<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167/edit>
attribute syntax
PENDING REVIEW
allowing attributes that have no semantics on specific elements<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/167>
2012-04-13
TTML2
0
ISSUE-176<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176/edit>
extent and origin on blocks
PENDING REVIEW
Adding support for extent and origin attributes on block elements<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/176>
2012-08-23
TTML2
0
ISSUE-178<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178/edit>
Inital values
PENDING REVIEW
initial values and style set calculations are unclear, especially for transformable attributes<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/178>
2012-08-23
TTML2
0
ISSUE-183<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183/edit>
PENDING REVIEW
semantics of using profile in a document<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/183>
2012-09-19
TTML2
0
ISSUE-206<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206/edit>
profile combination
PENDING REVIEW
Add ttp:profileCombination parameter<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/206>
2013-05-12
TTML2
0
ISSUE-225<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225/edit>
Relative tts:fontSize
PENDING REVIEW
tts:fontSize as percentage of container dimensions<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/225>
2013-05-30
TTML2
0
ISSUE-259<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259/edit>
Closest
PENDING REVIEW
Define "closest"<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259>
2013-06-27
TTML2
0
ISSUE-261<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261/edit>
PENDING REVIEW
signaling docoument profile conformance is separate from decoder presentation requirements<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/261>
2013-07-11
TTML2
0
ISSUE-262<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262/edit>
PENDING REVIEW
tts:extent semantics if value not supported<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/262>
2013-07-11
TTML2
0
ISSUE-266<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266>[(edit)]<http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266/edit>
PENDING REVIEW
add ability for instance documents to declare what profile(s) it conforms to <http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/266>
2013-08-08
TTML2
0
Tracker (Issues and Actions): http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker
TTML Wiki
http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText
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