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Re: DNT: Agenda for Call March 6

From: Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 10:02:47 -0500
Cc: Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com>, JC Cannon <jccannon@microsoft.com>, John Simpson <john@consumerwatchdog.org>, Lauren Gelman <gelman@blurryedge.com>, "Justin Brookman" <justin@cdt.org>, "public-tracking@w3.org" <public-tracking@w3.org>
Message-id: <2C0E6AC3-8A0C-4FE4-86B3-39B6D4277315@democraticmedia.org>
To: Rob Sherman <robsherman@fb.com>
But if the user comes to Macy's Facebook presence due to a relationship with Macy's where the chain has--for its own reasons or through joint marketing agreements--promoted its social media pFB resence (such as placing discounts there for sponsored actions), then the First party status is less clear, in my view.

The brand relationship may well be more with Macy's than with FB.   We need to have greater information and clarity on this.   Thanks,

Jeff

PS:  Interesting Macy's /FB relationship, btw: "Of brands focusing social campaigns around National Heart Health Month, Macy’s is particularly impressive. It is a simple but strategic campaign, pulling heart-strings across numerous platforms...This social campaign incorporates a strong cross-promotional aspect, with users being urged to send in their “something red” by way of Facebook...
http://blog.zogdigital.com/2013/02/14/at-the-heart-of-social-media/

 "As one of the launch partners for Facebook's Timeline Brand Pages, the retailer cultivates both Backstage Pass and other program content (including major events like Macy's Fourth of July Fireworks and Thanksgiving Day Parade) for its audience. And it's working: As of this writing, Macy's Timeline has more than 4.9 million Likes, as well as fleshed-out program tabs, like the "Million Dollar Makeover" and "Trend Report." http://mashable.com/2012/03/14/macys-social-media/

also see:  http://www.mediapost.com/publications/article/169059/macys-gets-facebooklift-expands-ecosystem.html#axzz2MaGntSTG

Jeffrey Chester
Center for Digital Democracy
1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550
Washington, DC 20009
www.democraticmedia.org
www.digitalads.org
202-986-2220

On Mar 6, 2013, at 9:45 AM, Rob Sherman wrote:

> Rob,
> 
> I think it would be hard to conclude that Facebook.com is not a third party, given that Facebook is named in the URL, is branded on the page, users have logged into a Facebook account (and agree to Facebook's TOS) in order to access it, the Facebook privacy policy is listed there and applies to data collection on the page, Facebook has developed and operates the software that displays the page, and Facebook runs the servers. I am hard pressed to believe that a user who navigates to Facebook.com (or Facebook.com/Macys) does not believe that they are communicating with Facebook.
> 
> Lauren may be right that it is better to migrate to a non-Facebook example, in part because Facebook's relationship with users makes this a clearer argument (at least in my view) than Etsy or Github. 
> 
> In those cases, it seems most intuitive that when I go to Github.com/Lauren I expect to be communicating with both Github and Lauren (if it is obvious she controls that space -- even if Github also controls a portion of it, provides content and functionality, etc.). And I would expect Lauren to be able to see what I write on her page. 
> 
> On John's point -- I should clarify that in the Macy's example my view is that Macy's would be a first party only on Facebook.com/Macys and subsidiary pages, where obviously it needs to be able to see what people write on its pages, etc. -- meaning that it would be a third party if it were allowed to collect data elsewhere. I did not mean to suggest that everyone who has a page on Facebook is a first party everywhere on Facebook.com. That result does not seem intuitive to me. 
> 
> Hope this helps -- and I look forward to talking more today. 
> 
> Rob
> 
> On Mar 6, 2013, at 3:36 AM, "Rob van Eijk" <rob@blaeu.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> JC, interesting observation. Let me coin another view. Can FB be considered a first party, taking into account it is all about Macy's in this context.
>> 
>> RobvE
>> 
>> JC Cannon <jccannon@microsoft.com> wrote:
>> I feel that is a different issue. Can Macy’s be considered a first party even though they are hosted on FB?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> JC
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> From: John Simpson [mailto:john@consumerwatchdog.org] 
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 5, 2013 4:33 PM
>> To: JC Cannon
>> Cc: Lauren Gelman; Rob Sherman; Justin Brookman; public-tracking@w3.org
>> Subject: Re: DNT: Agenda for Call March 6
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> Isn't the issue whether Facebook could share all of the data it has gathered elsewhere on the Facebook  platform with Macy's?
>> 
>> 
>>  
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>>  
>> On Mar 5, 2013, at 4:24 PM, JC Cannon <jccannon@microsoft.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Is it people’s opinion that if I go to a vendor page on FB such as https://www.facebook.com/Macys, the user’s interaction with the page should be treated as third party? As a consumer that would not seem practical to me. I would feel that I’m interacting with Macy’s. If I left a message I would hope that the people at Macy’s could retrieve it. Am I missing something?
>> 
>> 
>>  
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>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> 
>> JC
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
Received on Wednesday, 6 March 2013 15:03:55 UTC

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